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In Episode 83... 

Jessica Singerman has been a multidisciplinary artist for many years. She is also an outdoor athlete, enjoying running, biking and hiking, and her work is highly informed by the time she spends outdoors. She cares about taking responsibility for the changes in the environment and connecting with people in that slower space.  

Two years ago, Jessica took a full-time teaching position in the school of film at a local university, a choice that greatly impacted her art business. Because she was making a good income, she felt less pressure to sell her artwork, and that lack of pressure had a two-faceted effect. 

On the one hand, the amount of work Jessica sold was greatly reduced, and that meant that her studio was filling up with unsold pieces. Having a minimal time to devote to marketing her art, sales became infrequent, but she hoped it would build momentum as time went by. However, that momentum never came.  

On the other hand, because there was no pressure to sell, Jessica was able to give herself some grace creatively. She took time to experiment and learn new skills, exploring different media and techniques she had always wanted to try but didn’t know how. She even won a few grants that provided funding for her work during this time of exploration. Even though her art sales have been negatively affected, Jessica says the experience has been very beneficial because she was able to hone skills that have improved her practice.   

Jessica is ready to get back to actively selling her work. She knows she needs to generate more leads but doesn’t know how to go about doing so. Once someone has expressed interest in her work, she has no problem moving forward with the sale, but getting to that point is what’s holding her back. Frankly, Jessica would love for someone else to do that part for her. Her dream is to have a team to run the business side of things so she can devote her time to creating.  

Listen in as we talk through a strategy that will help Jessica get back to selling more work.  


Key takeaways:  

  • There is a place in your marketing for social media, but not as the primary source for visibility. (00:10:33) 

  • Decide what avenue for sales you've been the most successful at. (00:16:54) 

  • Be honest about whether you want to do the work yourself or outsource it. (00:21:40) 

  • When hiring help for sales, it's more important for that person to understand what your work is about and how people can connect with it. (00:26:01) 

  • Paying someone commissions to help you sell will offer them motivation to increase your sales. (00:32:02) 

  • You write the job description and determine what you think is fair pay when hiring. (00:35:24) 

Resources and links mentioned:

Learn more about selling your art:

  • For more practical and energetic strategies to create consistent income and life balance, follow Jessica on Instagram @artistmarketco
  • Learn to create authentic, engaging content that truly resonates with your followers with my course, Find Your Voice on IG.

Read the Transcript for this episode

Jessica Craddock: Welcome back to Intuitive Art Sales. I'm here with Jessica Singerman, who is a multidisciplinary artist as well as an outdoor athlete. And a lot of her work is really highly informed by that. She runs, she rides bikes. She loves to spend time out in nature with her friends. And really what the work is about is being able to connect with people in that slower space, as well as paying attention to the changing world around us and being able to learn how to take responsibility for those changes. So she's got some, some really good, important stuff going on with that work. And she just finished a big show that has been a culmination of her work for the last 10 to 20 years, and it's not really quite sure what's next with her work.

Two years ago, she took a little bit of a break trying to sell her work full time and took a adjunct college professor film class role. And I think I'm getting the sneaking feeling that she is trying to get a little bit back into that work selling, so I'm imagining we might talk about that a little bit. we're here. I'm happy to be here with you, Jessica.

Jessica Singerman: I'm happy to be here with you too, Jessica. I'm good. How are you?

Jessica Craddock: I'm great.

Jessica Singerman: It's really nice to see you, too!

Jessica Craddock: If you'd asked me yesterday, I would have been terrible, but

today I'm good.

Jessica Singerman: It's been a while.

Jessica Craddock: You know, it has. It's been at least two years because when we were working together, I was at my other house. and we've moved. So, it's been way too long. Shame on us.

Right before I stopped you to do the intro, you were starting to talk about how over the past couple of years, you haven't really focused on selling the work as much still creating the work, of course, but I want to talk a little bit about just where you are at in this moment in time. And where do we need to go?

Maybe just getting some clarity something. I don't know. Let's see. Let's see where this goes. But tell me, tell me a little bit more about your situation.

Jessica Singerman: Well, I don't think it's good. That's one thing's for sure. It's not necessarily bad either.

It's two faceted, and I'll see if I can actually keep my train of thought and remember. On the first side, I took on a full time teaching position two years ago, and because I was making a good income, I think I just felt less pressure to sell my work, right? And I also had less time to devote to that side of things.

So, I thought I'm just going to do kind of like the bare minimum to try to keep things going. I was hoping momentum would carry. Turns out, it doesn't really work like that. So, I went to like trying to post to social like once a week and sending emails like once a month. So, I still sold some work, just not as consistently as before.

But on the other side, I think because I didn't have the pressure to sell, I was able to give myself some grace, creatively to experiment a lot, and to learn new skills and do things that I'd wanted to do for a long time. I got some grants to be able to fund new work, and that was really nice.

And I would say I have spent probably about two years now, like trying things that I'd always wanted to do and didn't know how. And, and it's been really beneficial to my practice because I've, you know, been able to hone skills that I felt I needed, that I wanted to work on and really grow my practice. I wanted to be able to work in other media that either I had done as a hobby or that I had some interest in. And I've been able to incorporate that into my work, into my creative practice. So that's been good.

Jessica Craddock: I think a lot of artists think if I go get another job or I don't make all my money from my art that not as real. I don't know what the word is, but we'll use real as someone who isn't doing that. What would you

Jessica Singerman: Well, I think as I've gotten older now and just have had more Exposure to other artists and to, and of course more time practicing as an artist. Being an artist takes a lot of different forms. And there are some people who don't sell a lot of work who are super productive still, as far as artists, they're still making a lot of work.

There are people with day jobs, there are people with family money who don't need day jobs. And then like it runs the gamut, you know, I don't think. None of it, I think as long as you're making your work, you're an artist, right? I think it depends how you feel about it. But yeah, I've gone through those too, you know?

 It definitely doesn't feel great to me not to sell my work though, mainly because I don't like having a lot of work piling up in the studio. I don't like that it takes space, and it's really important to me that artwork be out in the world, you know, like not just be tucked away, like it needs to be lived with. Like once I finish the work, that's like one part of the life of an artwork, and that's what I get from it.

But then it needs to go out in the world so that it can provide for other people. Because like my side of the practice, and I don't even mean like sharing practice on social media, it's fine. And your kind of like giving a view into what you're doing, but it's all really for you as an artist. And it's really when the work goes out into the world, whether it's being exhibited or in someone's workspace or in their house. That's when it's like fulfilling its destiny, or its bringing people joy or like wonder or meditation.

Jessica Craddock: I like how you said, think similarly, but you said it, it has a purpose for me. And the purpose is the creation of it and what I get from that process. And then it has this whole other life. Cool. So, we have a job that seems very fulfilling and you seem to really enjoy it from that little that you have expressed about it. You have been a practicing artist for many years now. What's next?

It doesn't, it doesn't even have to be a big thing, but just like what little change, angle? Is there any change in your future, or are you happy?

Jessica Singerman: Um, yeah. So, I mean, number one is I want to keep making my work. There's no problem there. I mean, I, of course, like after a big exhibit, like I had early this year, it's always kind of like fits and starts to figure out like what you're doing next. But I understand that that's part of the process.

 But I'm not satisfied with the rate at which I've been selling work. I'm not represented by a gallery anymore these days, so it's really on me. And, any galleries that I do collaborate with, and, you know, they sell the work when it's there. It's my responsibility, ultimately, and I would like to be working on that aspect of things more. It is important to me to find a good balance, you know. And I keep coming back to like, there must be something different or better than social media. It hasn't been satisfying, and I have found it very depleting. But I do realize that it is an important tool, at least to be on it. Um, even if that's not how you're necessarily bringing in potential buyers. Um, yeah, I realize it's an important platform. Yeah, I would love to find better ways than that.

Jessica Craddock: I have such mixed feelings about mixed media or social media because. It can be so good, and it can be so draining and unfulfilling and give you nothing back. Like you were saying about artists, there's that whole wide spectrum, to get to where it's really repaying you for your efforts, some people can get there quickly, and other people can't.

Actually, even the people I feel like, like my clients who have rather large followings, it does feel like it happens overnight and I'm not taking responsibility for that. But it does feel like it happens overnight. But at the same time, there's seven- or eight-years experience before that, before it happens overnight. And, I don't know that it will ever happen overnight for most people. I don't know that you must gain a certain, lots of certain skill sets in order for that to happen. The way that I really value social media, especially as far as artists are concerned, just speaking as a blanket statement, is for making those connections, building those relationships, having a place to reach out, follow up and connect and all of that,

But when you're relying on it to bring in all your leads. That's when it just, until you hit that overnight success can feel frustrating.

[00:10:02] There is a place in your marketing for social media, but not as the primary source for visibility.

Jessica Craddock: If I was to make almost any artist's business plan, social media would not be the visibility piece. It's still a piece most of the time, probably, but there needs to be other pieces. So, you said I am doing social media once a week, and I'm doing an email once a month. And I have gallery shows here and there. If you were throwing everything out the window, let's say everything you've ever tried to do, put together, you're going to put a big old pile and light a match and set it on fire. And then you have to rebuild. You still get to keep the knowledge, right, the lessons. What would you want to create to sell more work? Do you have any ideas?

Jessica Singerman: That's, that's a hard question. I mean, I can't help, but think back to pre social media when, if I had a show locally, I was out like putting signs all over the place and coffee shops, but I don't just show where I live now. I live in a medium-sized town.

 I don't know. That's a really hard question because I'm at a different phase, know, like when I was right out of grad school. Um, and my work wasn't as expensive, and I was in a bigger, I was just outside of Philadelphia and then in Philly. I don't know. It's hard to say because my work is much more expensive now, so that's a limiting factor for a lot of people. And I would say, you know, lead generation is like probably the number one problem. And I don't, I don't know, I really don't know because I've, I've done, you know, like networking type things and those were not the right fit at all because people are looking for services. And I don't really, yes, I could make an argument that I provide a service, but it's not like, I'm not a plumber or a realtor. And so those networking events were disappointing.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. Let's, let's ask it differently. The knowledge burned up in the pile too. So instead of asking how would you do it? Let's ask if anything could work, what would you build?

Jessica Singerman: So honestly, if it was totally different, I would prefer for someone else to sell my work, like I wouldn't even have to do all that stuff. I know that I would still need to do some things as far, you know, that helps sell my work, but the responsibility wouldn't be primarily on my shoulders.

I would prefer for other people to do that. And so, I can focus on making the work. I mean, I feel like so many artists say that it's not like anything new.

Jessica Craddock: No, it's not new at all, but I, I hear you. You want someone to do it for you? Okay.

Jessica Singerman: you know, I feel like I'm limited in the people that I can meet who can afford my work to be able to, to build that collector base. I do have friends who buy my work and who collect. Yeah, maybe I'm also impatient, because I do make really good connections and people who are big fans of my work and who share it with other people and other organizations who are, um, definitely allies.

And I know that things move really slowly in the art world and that someone who likes your work might not be able to either buy it or include it in an exhibit, you know, for years. I understand that. Um, but. Yeah, having someone who has, I guess, access to people who can afford the work would be really nice.

Jessica Craddock: Finding someone with access to people who can afford the work,

Jessica Singerman: Yeah, I mean, I've had relationships with galleries, I've been represented, and it turned out they, I feel bad for saying this, but they weren't actively trying to sell work. And so that's not really helpful. It's nice to have good spaces to show work and to be able to make like challenging work.

But, if I'm collaborating with a gallery, I would like there to be people who are, who know how to sell work. And I have not collaborated with a gallery that knows how to do that yet. So, it's been kind of disappointing.

Jessica Craddock: Well, here's the thing about galleries, and there are some wonderful galleries out there, and some that do a really great job, and some that just want to have a pretty space to show artwork. When I'm thinking about my little ideal art buyer circle exercise where there's three circles, they might connect with the work. They might connect with you. They might connect with the message behind it. The gallery really fits into the, who like how the work looks, bubble.

Like they're not going to go out and find who cares about taking responsibility for the changes in the environment and connecting with people in that slower space. Like, yeah, they have a collect, maybe have a

collector base. But it's just for people who visually like, and maybe, maybe they get lucky, and someone connects with the work on a deeper level too, but that's not where they're looking.

I think that's the big problem. So, you would like to find someone with connections who can afford the work.

Jessica Singerman: Yeah. And I feel like that sounds so crass, but that's kind of what it comes down to. Does that exist? I don't know. think it exists. I have heard that this kind of person exists.

Jessica Craddock: It's like the tooth fairy.

Jessica Singerman: Wow. If it doesn't exist, that's actually kind of helpful. It's just a pipe dream. I don't know. It feels like it kind of has to.

Jessica Craddock: I'm doesn't, but I've never met them. I've never seen their website. I think where people normally go, because everyone wants what you, not everyone, many artists want what you want. I want someone to just sell my work for me and be able to sell it for the prices I want to sell it for. So, they go to, well, what is the answer that I know for that? Well, it could be a gallery. It could be an interior designer. It could be someone who will sell my product designs, licensing, and I'm not really sure what other buckets you do licensing. You do galleries.

Jessica Singerman: And I do direct sales. I have connected with multiple interior designers. Um, some of whom have bought work for clients.


[00:17:10] Decide what avenue for sales you've been the most successful at.

Jessica Craddock: So, of those, let's pretend just for a minute, there is not an option for. It's one of those three. Which one do you feel like has given you the most success

Jessica Singerman: uh, Selling in person a hundred percent. I've made way more sales directly with people.

Wait, was that not one of the options?

Jessica Craddock: Which is the thing you don't want.

Jessica Singerman: Yeah, but when it works, it's great. I would say, you know, most of the time, most of the time, if someone wants to see a piece and they're coming to the studio to see it, they'll buy it, most of the time. I've just had more success than rather than galleries selling my work.

Jessica Craddock: Okay, so you have gone that direction because that has been the thing that has given you the most success. Do you enjoy that process when it is working?

Jessica Singerman: Sure. Yeah. I mean, when someone expresses interest or just buys a painting, you know, off the website, which happens occasionally, someone even, I don't know, it feels great. It just feels, you know, like I know the work is going to a home, like there's no better feeling. It's the process of generating leads.

That's the thing that I'm like fully stumped, you know, and I'm fine socially and, meeting people. But like I do find it quite awkward to be like, I'm an artist. You should buy my painting. I know that's like, obviously not how it goes, but I think some people are really good and natural at selling and I don't feel like I have that skillset. Or maybe I'm just not comfortable with it.

Jessica Craddock: It actually feels like the opposite to me. It feels like you are a good salesperson once they have expressed interest.

Jessica Singerman: not an issue. It's the early, it's the getting the people. Yeah.

Yeah. I am actually a good salesperson. I used to sell bikes. I was quite good.

Jessica Craddock: I also feel like you believe in the work. So, let's do a comparison here. Let's pretend you are not an art salesperson. You are a bike salesperson. Would you ever tell people to come see you in the bike store and you would help them pick out a bike? Or would you just wait until they walked in the door?

Jessica Singerman: So, working in the bike shop, people were just coming in. It's not like I owned the bike store and needed to get people in there. Um, and so I think that's the hard part as far as selling my own work is I have to get people in the door. I mean, I sold clothing at one point, and I remember I did generate leads for that store just talking to my friends. I mean, it was natural.

It was part of the conversation. So yeah, it was like an athletic clothing store, a well-known place. And people in my running club, we would be talking, and they might say, Oh, I like the shorts you're wearing. And I could say, you should come by the store and try some on. Or like a sports bra, like someone might say, I really need a new sports bra.

And I would just say, come and I'll help you find one that works. And then it's just a matter of asking a lot of questions when they're there. Like I don't like telling people what to do. It's more just asking them

Jessica Craddock: In both of those scenarios though, they were showing interest in them. Okay,

Jessica Singerman: So, to be fair this has also happened, with artwork. you know, we’ll be in conversation someone will say something that feels like a good opening for me to say, Oh, you know, I, I do that kind of work. You should come by. But I have to say like most people or who will compliment work that they see on social media, and I'll message them. And they're friends. I already know them. And I'll say, hey, you can come by anytime. Pretty much no one ever takes me up on that, to come to the studio.

Jessica Craddock: Okay, so let me ask you one more, one more question, and then we'll figure out where the heck we're going here.

[00:21:07] Be honest with yourself about whether you want to do the work yourself or outsource it.

Jessica Craddock: If you did know how to create leads, would you want to sell the work, or in this dream scenario that we are making up here, do you still want someone else to do that work?

Jessica Singerman: I guess I could go either way, but I think if I'm really honest with myself, I would rather be working with someone. I would like to have a team, basically. I mean, ideally in my dream world, I'm doing enough work and on a scale where I have a studio assistant and who helps with like shipping and delivering and all that stuff.

And then I have someone who works on like running the business side and who's, yeah, who's doing all of the sales stuff. And then I can work on everything else. I mean, that would be my dream scenario. It just does feel like I have to work up to the point where like, I would want to be able to pay them fairly, like a good, good wage. And like having a team of people like a little team that like we work well together and we want to work together for a long time.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. So, it actually sounds like perfect scenario is you build your own team.

Jessica Singerman: That would be ideal. Yeah, I love the idea of someone, I mean, my studio is in the house, and we have workspace. I love the idea of, if it were here, I have like maybe one person to start who shows up most days, and we collaborate. And they help me in the studio, and they sell. And eventually we grow to the point where I need to bring in someone to run the business.

Maybe eventually we have to move out of the house, and I have to rent a bigger studio slash workspace. I would love that. You know, like I don't, I don't need to be alone all the time in my studio.

Jessica Craddock: Don't want to be alone all the time as it sounds like. So, okay. In this scenario, this new scenario that we have just discovered, maybe you already kind of knew it, but we're pulling it out now. Most people when they think about hiring someone, start with okay, what tasks could I take off my plate? And that's a perfectly reasonable place to start. But if I were to say okay, Jessica, here’s what I would do. I would say my first hire would be someone who is going to help me generate income. So instead of a studio assistant or package packer or website picture uploader, like those are all the things that we think about first, but who could help you find and create leads would be your first hire. Because then you're not working up to how do I pay them fairly. They're creating or helping to create it might start slower and grow, but they're helping create their paycheck.

Jessica Singerman: Totally. That makes sense.

Jessica Craddock: One thing that I really like to do when I start working with someone besides really clearly defining the role is thinking about what processes they can do over and over.

So instead of giving them so many different ideas or tasks, you would say, I want someone to help me generate leads for my art business. And then together, what's the best way to do this? Who I use the Ideal Art Buyer Circle for everything. Using this Ideal Art Buyer Circle, where are these leads and how do we want to find them, contact them, reach out to them, get in their circles? How are you and I together going to make this happen, brainstorm how to make this happen? And then you're going to go do the processes that we create.

Jessica Singerman: Yeah. It’s a little overwhelming. I feel like because I had such a hard time trying to figure out how to hire the last time, and it was such a smaller role and this, the person we're talking about now is someone who would need to have actual sales and marketing experience.

And so, it's a little daunting. I feel like lead generation for what's ultimately a luxury good can be tricky.

[00:25:33] When hiring help for sales, it's more important for that person to understand what your work is about and how people can connect with it.

Jessica Craddock: I don't know that it's so much that they have to have sales and marketing experience. Of course that would be helpful, but the more experience they have, the more you're going to pay. The thing that I would really focus on is helping them understand your work and who you are and why people connect with it. And the deeper understanding they have of that, the easier it is for them to be like, oh, I got these shorts at this store over here. You should go see it.

But the step before that is where are we going to find these people? And how are we going to contact them? And then creating a process around that. You did say, this is something I want. What's your timeline? High

Jessica Singerman: I don't know. I mean, as soon as possible.

Jessica Craddock: pressure.

Jessica Singerman: As soon as possible. I mean, I know that's not realistic if I started to work with someone or brought someone in, but I don't know what a realistic timeline is either. I do know that having a full painting rack, like does hinder my work because it's hard for me to make more work when I have some here. So that's like a very real feeling that I have when work is not going out the door. It actually affects my work process or creation process.

Jessica Craddock: I get that. And I'll, I'll throw another thought process at you that hopefully you can adopt. The more work you have, the more opportunities you have to sell and

Jessica Singerman: Yes.

Jessica Craddock: I run across artists all the time who want X, Y, Z. Don't have work to go to X, Y, and Z. And so, they have to now go build up all this work in order to start trying to get the things that they want. Having a lot of work is a huge!

Jessica Singerman: Thank you. For me, that's like, it's not the easy part, but, but it is, it's like the making of is like, that's why I got into this is because I wanted to make my work. If I had a, I could have things the way I want them to be, but I think like every artist wants this is like, virtually empty painting rack and I'm making work and it's going out the window or there's like a waiting list for my work, you know.

Jessica Craddock: I make a painting, it's gone.

I make a painting, it's gone. There you go.

Jessica Singerman: Yeah, except for the paintings that have to like accumulate for like a show for an exhibit, you know,

Jessica Craddock: okay, so I'm asking it again. In Jessica's perfect world, yes, you have to figure out how to do it, but when are you going to, let's call it, start looking for someone to help generate leads?

Jessica Singerman: I mean, it wasn't even in the realm of possibility right now. Right now I'm operating under the idea that I need to be doing this on my own and at least like get some momentum again selling to get to the point where I feel okay about spending the money on someone.

Don't know if that's the right way to think about it, but I feel I'm a little bit like yeah, I figured you were going to say that but I am a little lost in the weeds as far as like how to hire someone.

I really don't really know where to start other than writing out the exact tasks that I need done. I would hope that the person I hire is able to take the initiative and bring to the table things that I don't know, because clearly like I'm missing some big pieces of the pie, like I don't know what to do to generate these leads anymore. And so, it would be really great to hire someone.

Jessica Craddock: That's a

Jessica Singerman: So, I would like to hire someone who knows how to do it?

Jessica Craddock: What if that problem was fixed?

Jessica Singerman: Amazing.

Jessica Craddock: Okay?

Jessica Singerman: Huge load off my shoulders.

Jessica Craddock: would be huge load off your shoulders Your work would probably actually start moving.

Jessica Singerman: It would feel amazing.

Jessica Craddock: What would that be worth to you? Would that be worth the risk of trying to find and hire someone and probably up front some of that?

Jessica Singerman: Yeah. But I know there's no guarantee. Like you don't know if someone's going to work. You don't know if and when they're going to be able to sell work. But if someone could literally guarantee that they're able to sell work. Yeah. I would be able to front money.

Jessica Craddock: What about a trial period or an application task? Like, they have to complete a certain task in order to move down the hiring process.

Such as, here is what my work is about. What would you do? Like, let them brainstorm some of the work. What would you do to find some of these leads if you got to pick how you did it? Or where are five places that you would start with? Or, you know, something along those lines where you're, giving them some agency, and letting them show you how their brain works.

Jessica Singerman: Like as part of an interview process, I would ask them. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I mean, that's good. Of course, that totally makes sense.

Jessica Craddock: And it doesn't even have to be during the interview. Like, some people take time to process, but like, get all your applications and then say step two is we'll select however many, and then step two is you'll complete this task, and the best three I'll interview. I'll do it.

[00:31:27] Paying someone commissions to help you sell will offer them motivation to increase your sales.

Jessica Craddock: And then, on top of that, if part of their pay

Jessica Singerman: That's how I intended, that's how I saw it. That there would need to be some pay because I don't think it's fair for all their pay to be commission based. And then, yeah, commission to make it feel worthwhile them.

Jessica Craddock: I agree with you. I think that there should be some baseline as well, but I like commission because it creates more agency for them to say, well, how could I make more money? And then they are ultimately going to get to use their brainpower than It's just, okay, well, I need to clock my 10 hours this week and.

Jessica Singerman: Well, so, what do you think is a good base pay for someone in this role?

Jessica Craddock: It's funny that you asked that because I've been thinking

Jessica Singerman: And I know that could be geographically dependent. Like you live in Colorado. It's way more expensive to live there than where I live in North Carolina.

Jessica Craddock: So, I was doing some research earlier, why I was doing that. We can talk about another time, but like, what do talent agents like for actors, what is their pay like? When I was looking at that, it was somewhere in the 10 to 20 percent range, which felt really low to me.

Jessica Singerman: I guess it depends on how much we're getting paid. Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: Right, that too to then art galleries, which yes, they have the space up front. But so would an agent, they would still have to have their own staff their own. So, like, there's costs for both of those, but galleries get 50 percent. Acting agents get 10%. I would say somewhere in the middle there, the more commission you're willing to give them, the harder they're going to work for you.

Jessica Singerman: And then as far as like a base pay, what do you think?

Jessica Craddock: know, honestly,

Jessica Singerman: I guess. I mean, I don't really exactly know what the name of the role is because then I can research.

Jessica Craddock: You make the role. You, you write it. Art lead generation and describe the art.

Well, I want to give people an idea, so I will say the place where I hire from the minimum hourly is twenty-five an hour. But they don't work on commission. I think Yeah, as a range, it goes from about 25 to 40 in that space. And then the longer you work with them, you know, they increase their rates. But you're not hiring a VA. You're hiring a salesperson to add to your team on a part time basis, really. So, I don't know, I would maybe say What if you didn't pay them hourly? How else could this

Jessica Singerman: I mean, if it was eventually, if they were full time, they would get a salary. I mean, ideally, they're full time, like I'm making and selling enough work that they're full time, and I give them like health insurance. Like that's what I would want for the job. I want to be a good employer.

[00:34:48] You write the job description and determine what you think is fair pay when hiring.

Jessica Craddock: So, what if it was not hourly based? It's not salary. It's, this is the baseline you get per month. You're expected to X, Y, Z, and anything you sell increases your income because it's commission based. Let's, let's make up some numbers here. I'm going to pay you 500 a month. You're expected to contact at least 30 places, people, something per month. Obviously, you can do more than that because the more you do, the more you're going to make based on commission. But at a minimum, you have to do this much. I just made all this up. I kind

Jessica Singerman: Yeah, no, that's good. It's nice to see that this can be very clear cut and I tend to overcomplicate things. So, this is helpful. So, thank you.

Jessica Craddock: Someone who has more experience, probably 500 is not going to cut it, but a starting place. Also let's add this in there... trial period. 30 days, 90 days? You could do a 30-day trial period. And then at the end, both of you say, yes, I want to continue. And then at 90 days, it could be based off certain performance metrics or something like that.

Jessica Singerman: I mean, at least this gives me, I, so I ride bikes with people I think who know people who could possibly do this or who could be a good fit. And so, I can actually, I can start having conversations around this. I'm more comfortable talking about this than I am trying to sell my work.

Jessica Craddock: Because you're solving the problem another way.

Jessica Singerman: Right. Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: And you've, you've already got a process for selling the work once the people say I'm interested and that is working pretty well. So, it seems like it could be a really good move for you.

Jessica Singerman: You are correct. Like most of the time.

Jessica Craddock: All right. I think we should wrap up. What's your takeaways?

Jessica Singerman: Um, I actually have some action items. Like I am going to be talking to people, letting people know I'm looking to hire a salesperson. I can get leads for that. Start reaching out and then figure out if I need to do like a call and have people start sending me resumes or whatever it is, or just start having conversations with people. This is super helpful. Thank you.

Jessica Craddock: Don't hire the person who says I'm going to create leads by posting on your social

Jessica Singerman: Yeah, no, I'm, I'm aware of that now. It'd be nice to have someone who can think out of the box, but what I've also found, I'm, you know, this too, is like doing this work, I have a feeling we'll end up generating sales as well of my artwork because it opens conversations. And I feel like any work that I've ever done, that's like having to do with like getting the work out in the world leads to surprising things.

Always. I think it's energetically, it's like when you're trying to sell the work, even if it's like, this is tangential stuff, like I'm trying to hire someone to sell the work. But like, it's still, I'm putting it out in the universe that like, hello, I'm trying to sell work here.

Jessica Craddock: This is beautiful. I'm So where should people go see your work

Jessica Singerman: Thank you. Yes, people can see my work on my website, which is just my name. So, it's jessicasingerman. com. And if people are into Instagram and Facebook, I'm also on there at Jessica Singerman fine art.

Jessica Craddock: Sounds good. Thank you so much for being here.

I’m looking forward to talking again very soon.

Jessica Singerman: All right. Cool. Bye.

Jessica Craddock: Bye.

More about Intuitive Art Sales

This is the show where I, Jessica Craddock, am going to teach you how to source your art marketing from within. You're going to practice claiming that authentic art business that you want and leaning into the most natural way for you to get there. You're going to learn to get connected to your intuition, your confidence and your community, so that you can sell your art consistently while holding strong boundaries on your work life balance.

Most of my episodes are full of interviews with your peers. In these and all episodes moving forward, I explore what each artist wants and give them the next steps to get there. You can take their struggles and their challenges and learn how to navigate your own and create actionable steps towards creating more art sales, more consistently at higher prices than you've ever sold before.

You can find all the episodes here.

About the Author

Jessica Craddock

I mentor intuitive visual artists who are sick of one-size-fits all formulas sell more work, more consistently, at higher prices — with better work/life balance. My clients regularly make 3x more in art sales within a year.

Using my signature Consistent Income method, we’ll push you over the precipice of some really amazing growth so you can become the creator of your next chapter.

My secret sauce is that we focus on not just the "doing", but also the "being". Affirmations, trusting yourself, knowing when to go slow and when to go fast, practicing getting out of your comfort zone and making room for the feelings that go with that... all this is equally as important as the action steps.

For once, you'll be ahead of the game and understand what's right for you.

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