Season 2, Episode 6: “I’m having a hard time selling my originals. Where can I find buyers?”- Rebecca Sobbi

Jessica Craddock: I am here with Rebecca Sobbi. She is a landscape artist from Alberta. She's also a single mom of three, and she's been doing this full-time for about four years now, which is super impressive. And her goal is to double her income this year so she can travel the world with her family and feel comfortable and secure in that art income.

Welcome, Rebecca. It's nice to have you.

Rebecca Sobbi: Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's exciting.

Jessica Craddock: Of course. Happy to do so. I'm glad you are here. So tell me, Rebecca, one of the ways that I like to start these interviews is by having you describe where you want to go.

Once we do that, then we can see where you are now, like see what are the, some of the quicker steps to help you get to that goal that you are reaching for. So if you don't mind sharing just a little bit about that.

Rebecca Sobbi: Sure. So I would call myself a landscape artist. I love to draw inspiration from places that I've been.

So I love to paint like the feeling, not just the direct representation, which means I would love to travel and I would love to do that with my three kids and just be able to sell art full-time and travel the world.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah. Do you travel now while you are creating art? Or do you do it from photographs?

Rebecca Sobbi: Yeah, I do. Right. So my goal right now is to go to two new national parks a year. We just got back from Joshua Tree a couple of months ago.

Jessica Craddock: That's very cool. I love that goal.

Rebecca Sobbi: Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: I'm just getting curious. When you're there, do you take pictures and then go home and paint from those places?

Rebecca Sobbi: Yes..

Jessica Craddock: Okay. Tthat makes sense. Tell me about where you are now. What's happening in your business; what's working, what's not working? Give me a little bit of a rundown.

Rebecca Sobbi: So, last year was kind of a huge year for me. I got a printer and I actually like quadrupled my sales in my business because of that.

Jessica Craddock: Amazing!

Rebecca Sobbi: Yeah. So, I am doing a lot of wholesale business. That's awesome for me.

What's not working? I'm having a hard time selling my originals actually. But this year I am doing a farmer's market in Banff that I've heard is amazing. And I'm hoping that's going to help me in that area. So yeah, that's like my biggest challenge is finding the right collectors and selling my original paintings.

Jessica Craddock: Okay, so tell me a little bit more about what you are doing right now. You said I quadrupled my print sales. I'm doing wholesale. How are you finding people? How are you reaching out to them, or are they reaching out to you? Like, how are you making the sales that you're making now?

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay, so, I'm on Etsy.

I did that this year as well. I have a website. I'm active on Instagram, like pretty much daily. And then yeah, I have an email list. And I send out regular monthly emails with new products and new offerings. And then I think that's probably where I get a lot of my sales.

Jessica Craddock: From your email list?

Rebecca Sobbi:Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: So people, I'm just guessing here, find you on Instagram. You're probably pretty good about promoting your email list. They join your email list. You send out emails regularly. Is that all correct?

Rebecca Sobbi: Yep.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. So you do what I call the content marketing side of the business really well.

Or it sounds like you are doing it really well because people are responding, they're buying, they're watching you, they're joining your list, they're doing all of that.

Rebecca Sobbi: Mm-hmm.

Jessica Craddock: Great. That's awesome.

Rebecca Sobbi: I'm trying.

Jessica Craddock: Where I find that the higher end sales, the collectors, the people who are going to buy those originals will happen more regularly, is from what I call relationships marketing.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: Essentially what that means is having more connection with the person as opposed to they are just consuming your content. Does that definition make sense?

Rebecca Sobbi: Yep. Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: So is there any part of your business currently where you are interacting with people besides responding to comments and such like on Instagram?

Rebecca Sobbi: Hmm. I mean, I do in-person markets

Jessica Craddock: How often?

Rebecca Sobbi: Usually only around Christmas, to be honest.

Jessica Craddock: Okay.

Rebecca Sobbi: Other than that, like you said, it's mostly just like DMs and comments.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah. Are you pretty active in the DMs? Is there a lot of activity happening

there?

Rebecca Sobbi: Yeah. I'm not like actively reaching out to people, but I do have people who will talk to me. I do have good relationships with a few of my collectors that I talk to, and I feel like I know them.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah. How did that form just, they bought something and you started talking?

Rebecca Sobbi: Probably, yeah. Or some people that I had a relationship with before ended up purchasing from me.

Jessica Craddock: Right. You said I do in-person markets around Christmas.

Rebecca Sobbi: Mm-hmm.

Jessica Craddock: Do you do anything else in your marketing of your art that is not just, I am gonna post almost every day, and I'm gonna send out newsletters? Like do you ever have studio sales or do you put on any kinds of events or like, is there, is there anything else that I'm not seeing.

Rebecca Sobbi: I do have sales. But are you talking about more in person, like where people are coming to view my work?

Jessica Craddock: Maybe. I'm just kind of, I'm trying to get a feel for how you do business.

Rebecca Sobbi: Yeah. I have two sales a year. I do one in July around my birthday, and then I do one in November or December. It was tricky when my kids were really little to be able to do a lot of in-person things or feel like I could be involved in the community. But I'm starting to reach out more that way now that they're older.

Jessica Craddock: And well, in person is a little bit stronger than like virtual. There's not a whole lot of difference in talking face-to-face. So like for example, right now you and I are on Zoom. I'm talking to you, you're talking to me. We're responding to each other. I can see your face. I can see your body language.

That versus us sitting down and having coffee, sure, the coffee is going to be just a little bit higher up on the connection scale, for lack of a better word. But this is pretty strong, right? I feel like by the end of our time together, I'm gonna know you pretty well, especially compared to someone I might just be in the DMs with, or someone who liked a picture of mine, or someone who followed my email list or Pinterest or blog, or whatever it is.

Rebecca Sobbi: Mm-hmm.

Jessica Craddock: This is just stronger. And people buy art because of connection, so the stronger the connections that you can make, the better. And I'm not implying here that you need to now go out and Zoom with every one of your followers, like, that's not a thing.

Rebecca Sobbi: Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: I hope.

Rebecca Sobbi: Yeah, that's my question. So how do I do this?

Jessica Craddock: Right? So what I teach is kind of like starting at the top and working your way down model. So I call it visibility up here. So visibility can be lots of different things, but the warmer the visibility, the more connection that I'm gonna be able to have with someone, the better.

So let's use your in-person Christmas markets here, for example. So you are doing an in-person Christmas market. You talk to a couple of people. Do they join your email list? What happens?

Rebecca Sobbi: Sometimes. Some of them know me already, and they're excited to see me again. Sometimes they just buy something, and then I don't really hear from them. But usually they like to talk to me about my process and my inspiration. They like to talk about the landscape itself, and then that's really it.

Jessica Craddock: So it's almost like an active model versus a passive model. So at this Christmas market, what you're doing is you're being great, you're talking to people. People are asking you questions. You're letting them know you have an email list, but how can we take even a more active role in forming that relationship?

So if they're someone who you feel like is someone who would be interested in buying, or who is someone that you would just like to keep in touch with because they're a cool person. Or maybe they have a business in Alberta that would be a good fit for your landscape paintings that, you know, maybe you want to talk to them some more.

I keep a list and I teach my clients to have a list of names of these people so that you don't have to go back and remember them later. Mm-hmm. But then once you have this list, it can be, I feel like I want to just reach out to five people this week and see how they're doing. I want to be an active participant in this relationship.

Or it could be, I've got a studio sale coming up for my birthday, and so you want to go make personal invitations to them and say, Hey, remember me? We talked about how you had the purple sweater, and we talked about how we did the underlyings of the paintings. And I just, you know, I really, I felt like you were a really cool person. And I've got this studio sale coming up, and I just wanted to let you know and see if you had any interest in it.

And if not, that's fine too. But I just wanted to give you that, that extra little touch in case you weren't aware of it.

It could be that one of the things that I like to teach my clients to do is try to have one of those visibility activities. And some people can do this, and some people can't. But this is like a goal to reach once a month. So even if it's not a Christmas market, because you're a single mom, you've got three kids. Maybe it's a Instagram live or maybe it's a, I've got this coffee shop down the street that has said they want to put my art up, and maybe we can have a little opening party.

Or maybe it's, I've got five spaces for a virtual studio visit this month. Things where you can be with people and have those interactions so that you can find those opportunities. I hate the word opportunities cause that sounds very businessy. We're like, we're really talking about relationships here. But where can I find these people so that I can start finding ways to reach out, say hello, make their day, invite them to something. Maybe send them a little something in the mail or reach out and say, oh, I noticed you're not on my newsletter list.

Do you have any desire to be on it? Here's what I send out. So it's just more of that active role than the passive role. And by making that list of names, that allows you to be able to do that.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: I've been telling my clients, and I think I might have said this in another podcast episode, so forgive me if I'm wrong. But 30% of the sale will happen on the spot. 30% will happen in the follow up, and then the rest of them will happen in that nurturing down the road.

But I saw a statistic not too long ago, from someone who I trust, that said 15% is at the beginning and 85% is in the follow up. So you are doing a lot of, you're getting a lot of fast action buyers, which is great, but those tend to be more the impulse buy price than the originals price.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: So if I were to say, there's the three parts to marketing. There's the visibility, the nurturing, and the sales.

I would say you probably are really good at visibility in your content and getting people to find you and want to buy from you. Where your biggest opportunity for growth is, is in nurturing.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: So when I say that, some people have like a physical, I don't want to do that, reaction and I'm wondering if that is you.

Rebecca Sobbi: No, I'm okay with that. I, the Instagram live thing, that kind of terrifies me. But I'm pretty okay with feeling comfortable nurturing. Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: So if I mean, we keep using this word nurturing, but it's different for everybody. It can be a million different things. One of the ways to find your, one of your preferred ways to do that is by looking at your love language.

Have you ever looked at your love languages?

Rebecca Sobbi: I have. Mine is definitely quality time.

Jessica Craddock: Quality time. So that tells me that as you are moving forward with people, the more you can have just that, let's talk about something real, moments, the stronger that connection is going to be between the two of you, especially if they relate to that.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: So as I'm saying that, does anything come to mind? Does anything pop up for you that's like, oh, I might like to... fill in the blank.

Rebecca Sobbi: I have thought. So I, I, one of my goals this year is to start teaching. I would prefer to do it online, but I have thought about doing something really fun, kind of like retreat style, in the wilderness, class.

I think that would be really fun.

Jessica Craddock: Tell me more.

Rebecca Sobbi: I don't know, like I live super close to Banff National Park, so it would be really fun to actually go to a landscape, do a plain air class, paint together, something really beautiful. That's kind of my idea.

Jessica Craddock: So is this, I don't know the answer yet here, I'm just talking through with you.

Is this something where you would be open to doing it with your audience, or is it something where you're like, I just want to have a class where people pay to get in and ready, go?

No, I did originally, I did think of doing it the traditional way, like with six people in person, go to the place and have a class. But I don't know. What would that look like to do with my audience?

I don't know. I'm just kind of, I'm thinking. It's churning.

It might be like, how could we do that in a way that is nurturing? So it might be that you did one that was recorded. And maybe you have a couple of friends there with you to like kind of show if they were doing it like this, that maybe you could recommend this kind of thing.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: But that might be a really cool opt-in for a list of people who might want to pay you for teaching.

Rebecca Sobbi: Mm-hmm.

So turn it into an online class, is that what you're thinking?

Jessica Craddock: Like a free online class where people can sign up for a, I want to learn how to paint from Rebecca, email list.

Jessica Craddock: But what I was trying to get to was how can we use that for the people who are already around you to just like invite and participate? So if we had this list going already, it could be a private invitation where you're like, okay, I'm gonna go out to this particular landmark. And I don't even know if you're interested in painting, but I wanted to find ways to be able to interact with my favorite people in my audience the most.

And so I wanted to extend an invitation to you. It's going to be on Saturday. It's going to be three hours. If you're not local, my friend is going to be following me around recording so you can still participate. And I just wanted to tell you that I appreciate you and give you an invitation to it.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: Like that's something where you could spend, I don't know how long that would take, 30 minutes, an hour, three hours, six hours with someone from your audience.

Rebecca Sobbi: Mm-hmm.

Jessica Craddock: In a nurturing capacity.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: The hangup in my mind is if you did that publicly, like, Hey, just sign up and this Saturday we're going hiking. I'm afraid that you might get more people who just want to learn from you. But if that's a method that you want to add to your portfolio to diversify your income, then maybe that's not a bad thing.

Rebecca Sobbi: Mm-hmm.

Jessica Craddock: I actually find that some of my students who like to be teachers end up having their originals purchased by a student.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: Because they have that stronger connection with them. They spend more time together. They get to know them, and then they're like, I really like this person. I want one of her paintings.

So that might just be one way that you can incorporate nurturing, quote unquote, Rebecca's version of nurturing into your business model. What do you think about that? When I say it, all of that, what do you like? What do you want to keep? What do you want to take away?

Rebecca Sobbi: No, I like it. I am, I guess like if we're talking about fears, what if nobody shows up? Right? Like, that's intimidating.

Jessica Craddock: So what if no one shows up?

Rebecca Sobbi: Then I, I don't know. Is it, do I try?

Jessica Craddock: I mean, seriously, like, yeah. This is one of the ways that I like to go through fears. So tell me exactly what would you do if no one showed up?

Rebecca Sobbi: It would be fine. I would continue on. Right. It'd just be like.

Jessica Craddock: Maybe even paint.

Rebecca Sobbi: Yeah. Like that didn't work. That's fine.

Jessica Craddock: You get a painting out of it. I'm in a beautiful place. You could record yourself, right? You can enjoy nature.

Rebecca Sobbi: Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: That's not so bad. Here's the beautiful thing about this. If you invite 10 people, you can even have them rsvp, but if you invite 10 people, and one person shows up, that's like some major one-on-one time.

Rebecca Sobbi: Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: Which is pretty cool. I've taught workshops in the past where I haven't done much advertising. Like it's just kind of behind the scenes in my email list for a certain number of people. Then I had one or two people show up and I was like, well, you guys want to learn something? And they loved it. They're like, I can't believe that you took the time to teach that, even though it was just one or two people. And my response is, I would just as much do it for one or two people as I would for 30 or 100 or 200 people.

Because it's a completely different experience. I get to know them better. They get to know me better. I get to hear their hopes and fears and dreams and like it's a beautiful thing. If you go into it knowing that, then it's not so bad. Mm-hmm. If you go into it thinking ego wise, I need everyone to come, and it needs to be full, and what will they think of me?

Then it doesn't feel as good. But if you can switch the mindset just to start, it's very helpful.

Rebecca Sobbi: Mm-hmm. Okay.

Jessica Craddock: So, what I would like you to do next is start your list.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay?

Jessica Craddock: Because it's very hard to think about nurturing when you don't know what to do or who to do it with. So let's take away one of those problems.

My guess is you could pretty easily. Come up with 30 to 50 people to put on it right now. Okay, if not more. I like to have what I call a hundred ideal art buyers, which is people that you connect with that you'd like to get to know better, essentially, as many leads as you have. Leads are someone who has said, I'm interested in buying from you, even if it's not today.

Or I have a question about how to buy from you or your process or like they've shown interest in buying

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: In some way, shape, or form. And then also people who you think might be a good fit with your audience in some way, shape or form down the road.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay. Yeah.

Yeah, I can think of people right off the bat.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah. And then if you write all the people that you thought of right off the bat and then you dig a little bit, you'll probably be able to double it.

Rebecca Sobbi: Mm-hmm.

Jessica Craddock: And then your next step is to think of three ways that you would like to nurture those people. So we came up with one together, a landscape class, which you can decide, because we're doing it behind the scenes. We're not advertising it on your Instagram. You can decide if you wanna say it's a small fee or it's free, or whatever it is. But also part of the reason why I love it for you is because it's going to give you more confidence in that teaching realm, and you're gonna learn what works and what doesn't, how you like to do it. So when you do advertise a class that is paid or more expensive, you're four steps down the road already. Iit's kind of doing double duty.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: So that's one, but it's also, it's a higher touch one. So maybe think of two that are easier, such as I'm going to find one authentic, genuine compliment to send you out of the blue.

Rebecca Sobbi: Oh, okay. Yeah, that's much easier.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah. And not everything has to be this big old thing, but the more connection, the faster you nurture them to potentially wanting to buy from you. But we can't do that all the time, and we can't do that with everyone.

So how can we mix and match little small things.

Mm-hmm. There's one, two. Shall we think of a third one? Let's think.

This is a higher touch one too. And I hate to give you two high touch ones, but what you asked for, How do I help more people find my originals? Or want to buy my originals and the higher touch ones get you to the sale faster, so I'm going to go with it.

What are you painting right now?

Rebecca Sobbi: Right now I'm doing some beach, a beach collection.

Jessica Craddock: A beach collection. What do you want to do next?

Rebecca Sobbi: Next? I'm doing three oil paintings that are landscapes that are local. And then after that I'm doing like an Alberta Road trip collection.

Jessica Craddock: Oh, so you've got this pretty planned out.

Rebecca Sobbi: Yeah, I do. Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: So what if, and this may or may not actually work for you, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway. I like to do audience research as one of my nurture activities. You could say, “So here's what I'm thinking about doing. Would you mind, or would you be open to hopping on a call with me for 10 minutes and me asking you your opinion?"

So this might be someone you're already having a conversation with because saying that out of the blue might be weird and that's fine. But, you could continue with, "I'm planning on doing beaches and an Alberta Road trip, but I'm trying to figure out what's after that. What would you like to see?" 

So it could even be just as simple as that. "Is there anything in particular you'd like to see? I'm looking for National Park recommendations. I'm looking for this. I'm looking for that. Have you been to one? What's your favorite? Tell me why."

Rebecca Sobbi: Mm-hmm.

Jessica Craddock: And you don't necessarily have to take what they say, but if you get 20 people who say you have to go to Mesa Verde. It's amazing. And you, maybe you've never heard of Mesa Verde, like it starts to become this cool little thing where you're like, oh, maybe I need to go down there and try it. And then you can reach back out to those people and say, I actually did it.I went there and here's my pictures of this great experience.

What would you do with people? You know what I'm saying?

Rebecca Sobbi: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: So think of one research question you can either just ask them or you can say like, do you have time for a 10 minute Instagram FaceTime call? 

Or maybe at a class that you can invite your favorite people to. Which maybe you end up doing that monthly, I don't know. But, but try it once and then just also like a genuine compliment.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: Real easy, doable. Do you have any questions?

Rebecca Sobbi: I guess what I'm wondering is where is the best place to meet people? So is that Instagram?

Jessica Craddock: It can be anywhere.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: In person is best. Virtual is next. And like down here, it's just like how you're communicating. So, in person is the best. If that is the actual question, that's the best. But if we're talking about virtually, wherever you like to show up is the best place.

If you like Instagram, great. You're going to show up on Instagram. So Instagram is the best place. If you hate Instagram, it's a terrible place. Don't meet people there. Go somewhere else. Like, I wouldn't even care if you said LinkedIn or TikTok or Facebook or whatever. The place you like to go is best.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay, that makes sense.

Jessica Craddock: And honestly, I would worry less about meeting people, like new people at this point, compared to nurturing the people you've already got. Because when you do that, you grow organically. And yes, it is good to get in front of new people, but I don't think that is your first priority at the moment.

It's not your first problem to solve.

Rebecca Sobbi: No, not really.

Jessica Craddock: Do you have any questions about the list or the activities we picked out for you?

Rebecca Sobbi: No, I think they sound really doable. I'll start thinking and brainstorming.

Jessica Craddock: The other thing I'll say is if you start making your list and you come up with 80 people, that doesn't mean you have to talk to all 80 people right now. Maybe pick out your top 10 or 20 to start with. So if you do all three things for one person, I'd rather you do that than one of each thing for three different people.

Rebecca Sobbi: Oh, okay. That makes sense.

Jessica Craddock: Cool. Last thing I will tell you is write down a start date like, I'm gonna start nurturing this person on this date. However, it’s going to take you a little while to get your list created.

Rebecca Sobbi: Okay. That's great.

Jessica Craddock: Cool. This was fun.

Rebecca Sobbi: Yeah, it was. Thank you so much. It was good to pick your brain a little bit, get a different perspective.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah. 

So tell people where they can find you if they want to go look at, I assume Instagram is the place you would like them to go, is that correct?

Rebecca Sobbi: Sure. It's just Rebecca Sobbi.

R e b e c c a S o b b i.

Jessica Craddock: Great. That is perfect. And it was lovely talking to you.

Rebecca Sobbi: Yes, you as well.. Thank you so much!