Season 2, Episode 2: “What products can I offer that will generate more profit and help me reach my business goals?”- Cecilia Battaini

Jessica Craddock:  I am here with the lovely Cecilia. She is an Illustrator and Surface Designer who is inspired by florals, animals, plants, and mushrooms. And she started this hobby as a way to deal with anxiety and then it just became a full blown love, passion. I want to do this as my living. 

So welcome. Thank you for coming.

Cecilia Battaini: Hi Jessica. Thank you for having me. Hi everyone.

Jessica Craddock: Yes, I'm so excited and sometimes on this show I have a pretty good idea of my guests, whether we've worked together in the past or we've just known each other for years through social media or whatever. But this is my first time getting to know Chi Cecilia, so this is going to be really lovely and a good example of what it looks like if I have never had a background on you, had a lot of ideas about who you are and why you do what you do and what you're struggling with.

So I'm excited to have this conversation. So you had mentioned in your application that you are a very hard worker, and you've also already suffered some burnouts. But you still feel like you're not working enough.

Tell me about that.

Cecilia Battaini: Well, I think that's because I don't see the results I want to see.

I mean, so maybe for big reason, I feel like I'm not working enough. A part of me thinks if I mean, I can arrive where I wanna arrive, only if I work so much, but I feel I'm working so much. And I know this because I often ask it to myself, where could I find the hours to sleep? I mean, yeah.

Jessica Craddock: Oh no,

Cecilia Battaini: If I work, if I work more, I mean, sometimes this happens usually when I'm more in the burn phase, but I'm learning to deal with, with this. So, I got this, the feeling that it isn't enough because I don't see the result I wish to, to see. So probably there is. .

Jessica Craddock: Yeah. So let's switch gears for a second and talk about that, because I could just, you know, straight off the bat, like start giving you advice about what you should be doing and shouldn't be doing and blah, blah, blah.

But really what matters is where are we going? And I'm not even necessarily talking about money. I know that money is an important part of this, but what do we want to achieve? Where's our north star? Where are we trying to go towards? And that might be a feeling. That might be I actually know exactly what it looks like.

It might be anywhere in between. So tell me a little bit about that.

Cecilia Battaini: Well, one thing for sure is that I wanna reach a point where I don't have to worry so much. Like, I'm worrying now. I mean, there will always be some entities. I mean, it's it's a job that isn't always the same.

It can change day by day, but reaching a point where I feel more comfortable, more in, in a state of where I can experience more peace of mind. That's where I want to go. And one thing that I know for sure is that will help me will surely beat money because what my goal is to raise my income because right now I can't make a living out of it.

So I know that Visa will help me to, to feel, to, to gain a state where I will feel more balanced. But I know it isn't all this because I, I notice it that when I am more, I am more self-confident, and this don't happens very often because I'm not a self-confidence person at all.

But when when I feel more confidence in myself, when I challenge myself even more, because it's a job where I mean most of the tasks you have to do are really frightening because, you put yourself out of your comfort zone. But you couldn't go farther if, if you don't do that.

Jessica Craddock: I'm glad you know that .

Cecilia Battaini: Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. So really what I hear is. Have you ever heard of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs? No. Do you know what I'm talking about? Okay. And I'm gonna butcher this too, but at the bottom of it is essentially like that your core needs being met food, shelter, safety, all of those things.

What I hear you saying is, I just want my core needs to be met. I'm not at a place where I can decide any further than that. I just need to get to that point first. Does that feel accurate to you?

Cecilia Battaini: Yes. Yes. I feel that I have to reach so much small task to arrive to the big one. And I'm learning to, to get my focus more clear because it isn't, it hasn't been always clear. This happened up until some months ago. I thought that I had to do everything, I mean, to have success, but I realized that many of the task I forces myself to do, they weren't the right thing for me.

And I mean, I cannot do everything because it's like my brand would lose a little bit of its identity. I think if I offer everything that I can offer. So I'm learning to be more focused and to give fewer but better options to my clients.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah. So right before we hopped on, I was looking at your Instagram and it's very cohesive. I understand that you are an illustrator. I understand that you are a surface designer. I understand florals, animals, plants, and mushrooms are all heavy influences on your work. And I'm also looking at the number of followers you have, which is you know, a little over 8,000, which shows me that other people feel that as well.

They understand who you are and what you do, and so they've chosen to follow you because they feel confident in that, and they want to see more of what you're putting out there. So that's a great start.

Sometimes it's really good to focus in on the things that can help us with that confidence.

So you said I want to be more self-confident. This should contribute to your self-confidence, the fact that you have already done this, grown this, made this beautiful, cohesive, branded thing. Yes.

Cecilia Battaini: I wish , I wish, because, I mean, social media is always a trap, I think because

Jessica Craddock: Oh, sure.

Cecilia Battaini: I mean, sure. I, I'm proud of it.

But I mean, sometimes I'm asking to myself, I put a lot of work on my Instagram and I, I'm happy for it. But sometimes maybe I wish some clients contact me through my Instagram. I know, yeah. I have artist friends who got clients thanks to Instagram, and even a lot of people come to me and say, oh, yes, Instagram allows you to find many clients.

And I'm always no, it doesn't, but I mean, I'm not a very social media person. I, it was I mean, it's always very uncomfortable to put my art out there. But if I, if I don't, no one will buy it. So I had to learn this. And when I'm not so focused on social media unblock, I'm really happy of it. I mean, I put so much work on it, and I'm happy that you tell me it's very positive, because I mean, often I don't think so.

But it's always a trap because I think we are human being. We are like social media, I don't care so much. But then, yeah, we to see the number of likes the number of followers and this h as an influence on on us. But I'm trying to keep a positive mindset. When I can think clearly about it, I'm proud that so many people love what I do, and because I will stop myself. 

Jessica Craddock: I think that that's really an important thing to point out, that you said, yes, I do get likes, and I do get followers, but it's not bringing in the sales for me. And I will also say that's not the case for everyone.

Different people have different strengths, and it all looks like, because I'm looking at your Instagram, this is the, the example that I'm putting out here. But everyone has their profile. Everyone's got the pictures, everyone's got the bio. So why does some people sell on social and some people don't?

And where, where is all of that? I really believe it's in your strengths. And how you put yourself out there. So we could go through your social media profile and like find all the things, the little tweaks that I think would make a little bit better of a difference as far as converting people into clients.

But I actually don't believe that would be the most productive use of our time. I think that that would get you maybe one or two new clients, but how can we bring in lots of new clients consistently? And we know that one of your strengths is branding.

Cecilia Battaini: Oh, thank you.

Jessica Craddock: That's what I see.

When you make sales, what are they buying? What do people love to get from you?

Cecilia Battaini: I found myself rather successful, and I wouldn't have thought so, in products for children. So, I don't think I would like to be totally focused on children. I mean, do only children, but I think maybe this could be one of my strengths. And indeed, I outreach many brands of products for children, clothing and accessories and similar and also publishing houses that publishes children's book.

I mean, this is part of my, my outreach strategy because when I do events in person both children and grownups are fascinated by my art.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah. Okay, so a couple of thoughts around that. One, what you described to me earlier, I want less worry, peace of mind. I want to raise my income. I want to feel self-confident. I want to feel secure, like I want my basic needs met. When you are at that point in your business, that is what I consider a, a money now moment. So the strategies that you use inside of those moments are different than you would use at other points in your career.

So when you're thinking about money now, one of the concepts of that is what do people resonate with you the most about? What do they love to get from you? What is the easiest for you to sell? Once we can get you to that point where we're making a core income, we have that safety and security, less worry, peace of mind, then that's when we get to start playing and trying and really like seeing how we can stretch ourselves and our practice, and what people will love from us, and what we want to make the most.

And all of that being said, even inside of the money now moment, we're not just saying, okay, I'll take anything and everything and what do you want? Just give me the money. That's not what I'm saying, but where is that intersection of what they want from you and what you like to make? And if it happens to be that it's all related to children, that's okay.

That doesn't mean we have to go change our profile to say illustrator of children's rooms. But that would be essentially our core offer until we get to that safety security place. So let's brainstorm that for you for a minute. You said that people are always asking you for children's things such as wallpaper, clothing, accessories, books.

What, is there anything in there that you love doing?

Cecilia Battaini: Well, I for now I got the chance only to do wallpaper and because the other markets I'm. I reached them, some brands who email, but up up now, nothing working.

Jessica Craddock: Mm-hmm.

Cecilia Battaini: I really enjoyed doing whole purpose for children because in the end I created probably the most ambitious illustration I ever created.

I work mostly with patterns, so I was challenged to create sort of kind of scenographies. So probably I love it because it they pushed me out of my comfort zone.

What you told about finding the right target before getting to that condition I liked. I realized that it isn't really easy for me because I also work a lot with licensing, print on demand websites.

And these are both for children and both for grownups, but licensing is something that takes a lot of time to grow in a proper way. It's slowly growing, but I would like to do both licensing and both creating original work commissions exclusive for some brands.

And I'm still confused about what I sell most.

Jessica Craddock: So when you're talking about this wallpaper that pushed you, that you really enjoyed making, I'm still looking at your Instagram. Is it the one where it's like a forest with little animals in it, foxes and squirrels and all of that?

Is that what you're referring to, and you love making that?

Cecilia Battaini: Yes. And also there are others coming only that I can't publish them already because they will be launched in April during a big event.

Jessica Craddock: Gotcha. And these are going out to a company already, like they've been claimed.

Cecilia Battaini: Yes. They asked me for a whole collection. I had number of artworks and yes, they will be nonexclusive, so I will be able to license them after a period of time.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah. So with the company or companies that you are working with, how do you get paid? What kind of deal have you come up with them?

Cecilia Battaini: Royalties. Mostly royalties. Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: What percentage, like what would you make if someone bought that wallpaper for their nursery? And maybe you don't feel comfortable sharing this, but I feel like we need to do a little bit of problem solving. So if you are comfortable, great. If you're not, let me know.

Cecilia Battaini: Well, I can tell you the percentage, but I don't want to talk about what I've earned up until this time because it is very low. The company is late with the payment. So at this moment, I won't able to talk in a very positive way.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah, yeah.

I'm trying to think what I said before so we can back up. Okay. Let me ask you this question. How many wallpapers would you need to sell from this new collection in order to meet your minimum goal that would make you feel like you've got that security?

Cecilia Battaini: I, gosh, it's a difficult question. I have to tell you a very, I mean, a very high number.

Jessica Craddock: Approximate, yeah.

Cecilia Battaini: Yeah. I mean, oh gosh. It, it's a number too high too that I can, I can think about. I don't think I feel very comfortable sharing this Jessica.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. So, okay.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. So I know that with things that include royalties, the number can be really high that you would have to sell in order to make the amount that you want to make. Yeah. So how can we use those almost as, what I like to call your showcase pieces that can really show what you can do and how amazing it is in order to sell something higher ticket.

Does that make sense what I'm saying? I know you may not have the answer yet, but do you understand where I'm going?

Cecilia Battaini: Probably, yes. I mean, I don't know if this is where, where you're going, but I mean, often working with licensing and print on demand website helps me to see what artworks people like most because maybe they sell most. So maybe they help me say, all right, maybe I have to go more in this direction. I don't know if you wanted to go in this direction.

Jessica Craddock: Kind of, well, I mean, that's a really valid point is that that is a really useful side effect of having your work in a platform where there are lots of eyeballs on it, so you can see what people are really resonating with.

But what I'm talking about more is inside of, not inside of their business, but inside of your business, even though they overlap, they intertwine. Inside of your business, how can you use them to show people what you can really do so that we can make more money?

For example, you said commissions welcome. So when we're talking about commissions, and we know that people are really loving this forest animal wallpaper, maybe you start creating large scale drawings mounted on wood panel that are similar to the wallpaper that you're creating. And show people how you can make them artwork as well.

So it's the same overarching concept. It's still, for example, maybe the trees and the foxes and the squirrels, but you're making them into artworks and saying, also, I can make these custom for you. If your baby's room is decorated in owls, we could make one with owls instead of squirrels. So it's almost like piggybacking on the publicity and the visibility and the knowing what people like and turning it into something that you can charge,

I don't know, we would have to talk pricing, but 500, a thousand, 2000, $3,000 for, instead of selling one wallpaper and getting $4 or something like that. I don't know what your number is. I'm just making it up. Do you see what I'm saying?

Cecilia Battaini: Yeah. Yeah. I can see it's something that I definitely, I think I could do.

And it's that easy because a part of me, I think, all right, I see that on my Instagram you see I'm open for commission, so if you want a commission, you'll come to me. I know that I have to show what I can do, but it isn't always easy. But it's something I'm going to work on.

Absolutely. Yeah. It's a good idea. 

Jessica Craddock: I really think that that is one of your biggest problems to solve, because even if we talked about how to do more grassroots marketing, you've already got an audience. I think that they are connecting with it and I think that they are buying it, but the business model that you've chosen requires much higher numbers.

And unless you want to spend years and years getting to those higher numbers for then what you've put together to all work, it's going to feel frustrating. So then the biggest problem to solve is how can I make money now while I'm building all of these things that I want?

Cecilia Battaini: Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: So I think that's your biggest problem to solve. So let's see if we can nail down something for you inside of this episode before we wrap up. So we've already determined you love large scale illustrations because they push you out of your comfort zone.

And when you push yourself out of your comfort zone, you start feeling more self-confident, which is one of the things that you said you wanted. You said that people approach you for those types of subject matter, so they like it. You like it.

So if we were to choose a quote unquote medium to put your artwork in, is that the vessel that you would choose? Is that commissions?

Cecilia Battaini: Yes. I mean, because I love licensing, but I also like to do commissions. I like to do something exclusive.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. I see a post that you have here at the top that says commissions. And it says, I can create for you illustrations for books, packaging design, wall art, art prints, invitation for events, or just tell me what you want. What if instead of taking such a broad approach, I can do everything?

Jessica Craddock: What if we narrowed it down to something that people could relate to and see themselves buying? Like, I can look at your work, but then when I see that post, I see, oh, illustrations for books, packaging, wall art, invitations for events. I don't, I don't know. I don't know if I need any of that.

So instead, I like to teach this approach where you sell one thing outwardly for at least a period of time. But then behind the scenes, if people are like, ooh, can you do invitations? Can you do packaging design? Can you do illustrations? You're like, well, yes, of course I can. I'm great at that, and then you can sell it to that person.

But outwardly, what is the number one type of commission that you would like to get?

Cecilia Battaini: Probably I would like to do some books.

Jessica Craddock: Books. Okay. Great.

I actually really like that for you because that gives you like a theme to work within, and you can charge by the illustration. So they're not just buying one illustration, they're buying a package of illustrations.

Cecilia Battaini: Yes. And I would love to do some, I mean, maybe not a story, but I mean book for kids where they have all the mushrooms, all the plants and all the animals. I would like to do something like this. Also, if they propose me a story, I would also love doing a story.

Jessica Craddock: Okay, so what I want you to do for a minute, I hope that I'm not gonna stress you out if I say this. Tell me if I do. But what if you just took a beat and you're like, okay, I'm gonna find somebody who I, I want to illustrate their book.

Like I just wanna do it as a passion project. Somebody who has a decent audience, who would align with the type of artwork that you make. Maybe a past book had a certain style, and you were like, yeah, I want to do something like that for them. Or, I don't know. But what I'm thinking about is, finding a person with a story that you want to create. Because the difference here is that you have a post with commissions that says all the things you can create. But if you started showing you doing that work, that would come across way more strongly than just, here's all the things I can do.

So I was on someone's page earlier and she was an illustrator for brands. I don't know how I got to her page. I don't even remember what her name was. But I remember scrolling through her feed, and she was producing so much work, so many different brands. And I got the impression that she was creating these just to like grow her portfolio instead of like them being actual clients because there was so many. It was like every day there was a new client.

But I really loved it. It gave me a great understanding of what she did, how she did it and what it was gonna look like. So much so that even though her style wasn't really my favorite, I was like, I want to go to her website and check out her pricing because I know that she could do what she said she does. And I'm curious.

I just wanted to know more about her, and what it would look like to work with her. So that method is very strong in making people want to hire you as opposed to, here's some pretty pictures, or I could do anything for you.

Are you understanding what I'm saying?

Cecilia Battaini: Yes. I think I do. Yes.

Jessica Craddock: So even though you are working with these companies to do wallpaper, and you do want to do that, that's gonna be really hard for you to get to that place of less worry, peace of mind.

The book idea, on the other hand, is something that I feel like you're pretty excited about and matches your strengths, what you like to do and what people like from you and could pretty easily, if you got one project, hit your income goal for a month or maybe even two months with one sale as opposed to getting hundreds of sales to try to meet your goal.

So what if from here on out, and tell me, if you don't like this idea. Like that's okay too. But from here on out, it's either here's a wallpaper that you can take and license for your company, or here is an example of a book. But they go together because it's the same flowers, animals, plants, magic, grow your inner garden, all of those things that you are saying in your profile.

What do you think?

Cecilia Battaini: Well, I like the idea that they can go together. I mean, they will be part of my same work and that's, that's what I really want. I think you told me so many thing I need some time to, to think about them.

Yes, you, you told, right? I mean, I love the idea of selling illustration of commission because also I know it's a more it's a safe money versus royalties. You never know how royalties will go and so yes, I'm trying to do this. And also I make those posts with commissions. I mean, actually, that post was though t as a way to narrow down my offer, instead of saying, I will do everything. So the fact that, that you see in another way, it's a little unsettling.

Jessica Craddock: But no, it's a good thing. It's clarity.

Cecilia Battaini: Yeah. But I mean, you, you were right. I think often when I think about doing children's book, I, I'm more, all right, I'm reaching out to these publishing houses and I never answer to me. But maybe there is some author out there who who wants to have a story illustrated and published? But how can I find this person?

Jessica Craddock: Let's take a step back. Yeah. Maybe that's step two or three or four or five down the road. Actually, maybe step one is, here is a story I love that is full of plants and animals and magic. And here's a page from that book.

But if I were to have illustrated this book, here's what I would've done. So it's almost like you get to pick and choose your assignments. You're still showing people what you can do, but you're doing it in a way that is as true to you as you can possibly get because you're not working with anyone else. You're just doing it your way.

And so now you're showing people, this is my best work, this is my ideal, this is what I want to go toward. If you meet me here, then maybe I'm the person for you.

Cecilia Battaini: Alright. Yes it is.

Jessica Craddock: So this is almost a case where the more artwork you can make, the faster we'll get to that new income stream. So instead of spending so much time, I don't know what you spend your time on, but you spend so much time on it, you're not sleeping. Instead of spending so much time on all your other,

Cecilia Battaini: I'm getting better at that. I'm sleeping more.

Jessica Craddock: Good, good. Sleep is important. Maybe take a step back and say, okay, half of that work time, I'm going to spend making art. And it's either going to be a wallpaper or it's going to be an example of a book page that I would make. And those are the two things you focus on.

And you share those, and also within sharing those say, PS, if you're looking for a book illustrator, message me.

Cecilia Battaini: Yeah. That's something I could definitely do. Yeah, absolutely.

Jessica Craddock: PS if you're a licensing company and you want this wallpaper, message me. Like just always throwing it out there, this is what I'm looking for more of.

Cecilia Battaini: Alright. I totally agree.

Jessica Craddock: Also, we don't have time to get into this today, but look or maybe re-listen through some of the other episodes where I'm talking people through more of the relationship marketing side of things. Where you're able to connect with people outside of just the social media and see how you can take this narrow idea. 

Let's just say for now the book, because that's what's going to bring you the most money, the fastest. How can I talk to people to see how I can get my next job as a book illustrator? Listen to them through that filter. And I think you're gonna find a lot of hints and clues in there.

Cecilia Battaini:  Well, in two weeks I will go to Bologna's Children Book Fair, which is one of the biggest. I will carry my business cards and will try to connect with authors and trying to send them my portfolio. So, yes, I'm already having these big steps outside the, the line.

Jessica Craddock: Perfect. I'm very glad to hear that. And I would love for you to have some examples to show them by then. You've got lots of examples in the form of your artwork, but what would it look like as a book?

Cecilia Battaini: Yeah, I know. 

Jessica Craddock: On your Instagram account I see a white stag in some flowers. I feel like that could be turned into a book illustration with just a couple of tweaks. So maybe you're like reworking some of your artwork instead of starting completely from scratch. So that might be your next step. Ask yourself what do I already have, and how can I repurpose it?

Cecilia Battaini: Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. So tell me, what are your next steps?

What are you gonna do? What are you taking away?

Cecilia Battaini: Well, I definitely have some ideas on how to propose myself for children's book. That's for sure. And also some ways to make more my strategy more clearer to be more focused and to narrow down what I can do.

Jessica Craddock: And like I said, if someone wants to hire you for something else, and it's something you wanna do, great. But outwardly we're saying, these are the two things that I want, and here's how great I am at them. Hire me.

Cecilia Battaini: Yeah. I have to do a little more of that.

Jessica Craddock: I know everybody knows, and it's a process. And it's something that you are continually going to relearn, and then it's going to be frightening. Then you're going to get some self-confidence. You're gonna grow somewhere, and then you're going to have to do it again.

But the good news is you like that. You may say no to that, but you told me you do. And I believe that you do .

Cecilia Battaini: Yes. Maybe it isn't always easy when you are in that situation, but right when you reach some goals or some milestones, you are pleased with everything you've been able to achieve.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah.

Okay. So you told me an overarching what you're going to do. Give me three concrete action steps that you're going to do next.

Cecilia Battaini: Oh gosh. I mean, I already told you about the, the book fair, and I was talking about doing some art therapy workshops with people I know, plants shop and similar. I've never done something similar, but we are talking about doing these collaborations together. Also, yes, I'm going to try to do more illustrations in the context of illustrating for books. 

Jessica Craddock: So what if for that collaboration, you made the poster, and the poster looked like a book cover. And the book was named something that they were going to learn at the class.

And it was obviously in the style that you would like to make with some beautiful plants maybe featured from their shop. Like if they have a couple favorites out in the shop window or something, and you feature those plants. So in that collaboration, you're still focusing on thing that you want more of.

And yes, it's not a workshop about books, but it's still yet another example of how you want to be working and putting that out there.

Cecilia Battaini: Yeah, I love the idea of doing a poster in the style of an illustration. Yeah. I am in. I can do that!

Jessica Craddock: Okay, so we've got a poster. We've got a book fair.

What's step number three? Make it smaller. Those are both big steps. I want you to have an easy, conquerable, I can do this in a short amount of time, step.

Cecilia Battaini:  I don't know, because I have some goals, but during our talk Ifeel a they are a little bit difficult.

Jessica Craddock: I've got one for you. Okay, so that to-do list of the goals and all the things that you've been putting on your plate that you want to get done. Now that we've had this conversation, you're going to go back through that list and cross off as many as you can that don't support your new focus, vision, path. The beautiful thing about narrowing like this, even if it's just for a while, it allows you to take a lot off your plate. Because it's no longer your highest goal, no longer the thing that's going to get you where you want to go the fastest.

Now that we know the thing that's going to get you where you need to go the fastest, we have that filter. And we can cross everything else off. We could take a nap in the middle of the day along with sleeping at night.

Cecilia Battaini: Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: Okay, action step number three, get rid of actions.

Cecilia Battaini: Yeah, I love it.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. Excellent. All right, well thank you so much Cecilia for being here. I loved having you. I loved getting to know you and hope that we can get to know each other even better down the road.

Cecilia Battaini: Yeah, I hope so to, Jessica. Thank you for having me.

Jessica Craddock: You're so welcome.