“I’m ready to simplify my art business and find my flow state.” – Christie Owen

Jessica Craddock: Welcome back to Intuitive Art Sales. Today I am talking with Christie Owen, who is a really special guest for me. Because, while she is both an artist and designer, she also co-ran an artist group that I was in for several years, probably 10 or 12 years ago. So being able to reconnect with her was amazing. 

Right now, Christie is in a place where she's taking stock of everything that she's done in the past and figuring out a way to move out of burnout into more of a peaceful, tranquil way of making art, but at the same time, it's imperative that she brings in an income because she has been putting her daughter through college with her art business. So, how is she going to find that balance in her life and her business? We're going to talk about it. Let's go.

Jessica Craddock: Welcome back to Intuitive Art Sales. I'm here with the beautiful Christie Owen. We actually have a history. When I graduated art school in, I don't even know what year it was. Let's say 2007. Christie took me into her art group. It's a bunch of women. It's called Fringe. So we all of stuff. We like rented a house and made it into an art gallery. And we had all over the city and you just is such a great job with that.

Christie Owen: Yeah. Christy Hackler was the mastermind. She came to me and she said, do you want to start a women's art organization?

I was like, sounds great. I’ve got a little child and my butt off, but this sounds great. On with other women. Let’s support each other. Let's make work. Good. She fostered that, you know, she gets all the credit for that.

Jessica Craddock: In my mind, it was a joint effort.

Christie Owen: Yeah, like, she was. I just happened to know enough about PR and graphic and web stuff because of my jobs. And so, we just had that perfect moment where we could make stuff pop, and we did. It was so great.

Jessica Craddock: That lasted for 10 years.

Christie Owen: Oh, a long time.

Jessica Craddock: It wasn't short little project.

Christie Owen: It was great. I just used to get so excited just to put the events together, and it was much needed at the time.

Jessica Craddock: It was by all of us who were trying to learn how to sell our art.

Christie Owen: Exactly. Yeah. We learned so much.

Jessica Craddock: I learned so much during that time. Thank you, Christie and Christy. I might not be here if it weren’t for you two. So, Yeah.

Christie Owen: I know. It's so cool that I met you through Christy and Brandy and else just, just kind of kindred spirits.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah, I have very memories of that time and I just wished my head. I had another one of those. had another 1 that I'm in another state.

Christie Owen: Start one up locally. I know I was so glad for the experience. It's so cool that we had that. I wonder how many artists out there have even connections with any other artists. What if you're an artist that doesn't really get involved with your community or other people? That was me. I wasn't trying to mix it up with anybody. So, it was nice. I had such a great social life.

Jessica Craddock: I mean, I meet artists all the time who are like, I want a community. And now that can be achieved online. Yeah. I don't know that it's as powerful. But it’s something. Like, don't be alone. Find your crew.

If you are around people who are doing the things you want to do, you're going to go further, faster.

Christie Owen: Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: We were just talking before we started recording how you were kind of reassessing the art that you were making and trying get back that play where you get lost in it and want to stop producing because you simply need to produce. How are you doing that?

What's your process to stop having a process?

Christie Owen: I get excited by color now more than anything. Let’s say I was only painting in black and I trying to find this this harmony in all my work. I think that works. If you make bunch of black and white work, it kind all goes together. But I'm very inspired by things I see or something on my walk or color. I get excited about that color. I love mixing that color up, and I see a blank canvas. Which I usually buy a minimum of 3 of 1 size in case I want to pair them together.

And then I have to violate that canvas with color. I have to make that mark. I have to get over fear of getting on there. So, I do that and then I will

Jessica Craddock: I just want stop you real quick. You said,  “violating the canvas”.

Christie Owen: Because they're so beautiful when they're brand new. They're so beautiful because they're pristine. You know, I just have to get in the studio and get moving.

And one idea will carry over into another thing. And then I'll have that aha moment. Hey, this is working or no, this isn't working. Maybe I’ll throw it away. You know, yeah.

Jessica Craddock: You just described the process of here's how, basically. I mean, it's like any other artist, right? It feels like you your own process. I get three canvases. I violate one of them, mix up the colors, and then I just take one brushstroke, make one mark at time, and then it starts to come together. It builds itself.

So, once it comes together. Then what?

Christie Owen: Then when done, I evaluate surface quality. Does it call for varnish? Does it call for a resin? Is it good the way it is? You know, um, I like to protect the work as much as I can, because I know accidents happen. So, a lot of times I will put a coat on. But I just love playing with the texture. When it's ready, you know, I look at it and I go, that one's done, you know. That one's fun. I'm okay with that. That New York artist cultivated in me this inner knowing of when it's done.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah. Yeah. Keep going.

Christie Owen: Right. Or throw it away.

Jessica Craddock: Which, I mean, sounds easier, but it's not to know which one it goes into.

Christie Owen: Yeah. You hang that stuff and then, you get so upset that you burn it or you chop it up with an ax.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah,

Christie Owen: Yeah. it's good for you, or you give it away. Not everything that I make is everybody's cup of tea. And literally some of my worst accidents would be somebody's favorite and that's just the subjectivity of making.

[00:08:11] Finding a way to manage your inventory is key.

Jessica Craddock: You said you've got a couple of things happening. You’ve got an Instagram that you know you can sell on if you want to, maybe a little burnout with it. But pretend for a minute and give me your gut response. We have new body of work. It looks great. You approve this message. What are we going to do with it? Are we going to do something with it? Does it have to do something?

Christie Owen: Yeah, it'll go to the gallery in New York. Or go to the one here in Oklahoma City. Or going on my own personal shop, which I thought about just putting it my own shop first and telling the galleries, pick the ones you want yeah. That whole system of the galleries collecting your art and everything, I think could be really good. I've had a shop on my site before. I'll just take it down. Like hey, if you're taking that, I'll just pull that consignment piece down off my site. Because, I've had Saatchi, and I put it on Instagram. I've had my personal website. I have the galleries. This is good because you've got multiple ponds to fish from. You want to spread it about. But as far as managing that inventory, that's really fun for me. No, not. You have to get your daughter or an intern or somebody to help you with that organization. Yeah.

I need to download a really good inventory management artwork archive.

Jessica Craddock: I have heard of it. I’ve had a couple of clients try it out. I haven't gotten my hands dirty with it. I think they appreciated the organization of it. It also, maybe for some of them, like a lot were even scared to put it in there in the first place. But that's just the nature of art making.

 So, how do I deal with this in a way that works for me?

Christie Owen: You have hang on to some of your work because, I mean, you could still sell it. Sometimes it doesn’t matter if people know how old it is, great. And so, you know, the pieces that I need to hang on to, I know the ones that need to be destroyed. I wouldn't even give them away some of them, like 90%.

 So that’s my approach to art making.

Jessica Craddock: What's maybe, I don't know that you know the to what's that I can maybe help you think about in order to take a step forward with the place you want to go? Let's start there. Where is the place you want to go? Is the place you want to go just, just to take this year and make whatever I want and,

Christie Owen: Yeah, that's my year this year. I deserve that after everything. I feel like this is healthy. It's a hiatus. place to be, but

Jessica Craddock: part the that you're able do that is not your gig.

Christie Owen: Exactly. Which is a good thing. You know, they say, oh, artist serious. They have a side job or something. No, I'm putting my kid through college. And for me, the way I make art and art sales I need to focus on bringing an income. But there's this also really awesome income from art too that maybe I don't have to work so hard for anymore.

You know, maybe this is about the magic of art making now, instead produce this for this show, go, know, now it's, I'm going to make something that I'm really excited about and I'm going to share it.

Jessica Craddock: Well, and you've that many years now? Like you have built up collectors. You've built an audience. You've built people who know and and it's not like you're starting from scratch here. You have all these pieces in already.

 Yeah. And I think, I think good be just fade off for a minute. It's okay. I'm 50. So, this is just where I'm at mentally in my business. And I just see that I'm never going to stop making art. It's always there for me and to it pace. I know that I need to be taking it. I make better art that way, kind of getting back to basics.

Jessica Craddock: You know what I did the other day? I wrote down every single thing that I do in my business, or I tried write down. I missed probably 50 or so, but then I looked at it and I said, if I could only do 10 to 20 percent of this, what would I be the most sad to lose? So, if had 40 things, then I could only pick eight and then I also did. If I could only pick 8 of these things, which ones do I know work the best? And I looked for where the overlap was and there was some overlap. And then I wrote all those down at the bottom of my paper. And I said, how could this be it? How could I only do the things that I love and the things that make the biggest impact? And I'm still working on that. I have an idea, but it’s way out of the box. I'm going to recommend that exercise forever.

Christie Owen: Absolutely.

Jessica Craddock: It really helps you see where you want to go.

Christie Owen: Focusing on your energy. Yes. Where can you be the best, most fulfilling, with the time that you're spending, absolutely. And being fully present and enjoying that as much as possible.

Jessica Craddock: And I'm not suggesting that you need to do anything this year, but if you want to prioritize the year making what you want to make and playing with it and continue to give yourself opportunity to create some art sales there. I would recommend that exercise for you. Like what's the Minimum things. Yes,

Christie Owen: Yes, I did actually do like that because I have these different series. So, I looked at all these series said, okay, how can I do these differently. Maybe I can combine several of these small works to make a large one. They are fun.

Jessica Craddock: That's a fun idea.

Christie Owen: How can I move this and see how everything will be cohesive. It won't seem so out of left field. I can these things with everything I already have, you know, and I feel safe in that area, and that's where I'm allowed to explore still.

Like I said, if I have some extra paint somewhere, it's going to go on a little experimental trial somewhere, you know, so it's actually everything I've done in the past, but now doing it in color is a safe place for me to be. But my studio is in disarray. That's step 1, and once that’s squared away, and I feel the tranquility of the cleanliness in that space, then I can go in there and make a mess. I do make a lot of work when I get going. It's like multiple pots and pans on the stove, you got a bunch of things going on at once.

[00:15:47] Sometimes it's healthy to take a break from making art.

Jessica Craddock: Well, you said like, I want to get out production mode and like having to produce for this and wanna get into getting lost in Right. It's funny that. When you get in it, you produce a lot.

Christie Owen: Your flow state. That's the the best place to be. And it’s taking me a long time to get back to that flow state in any sense because I have another job, because life happens. So, the main thing is I do have days on my calendar that I'm like, this a studio day. And you're going to be in the studio today, at least two to three times a week you're going to be doing something.

I will always keep my foot in that door. I won’t let that shut, you know what I mean?

Jessica Craddock: I did.

Christie Owen: You did? So, you've been on the other side. You know what I'm talking about?

Jessica Craddock: I just said to myself, I don't need that door right now. I'm just going to close it. It's working on me.

Christie Owen: It's good for you. I think, you know, you guilt trip yourself for a while. Well, first you're happy to just shut the door and forget, but then if keep of looking in there, once you start guilt tripping yourself,

Jessica Craddock: I even got through the guilt tripping into I don't need that.

Christie Owen: Cool. That's the best.

Jessica Craddock: I don't know that it's even in a good way. It's like I just continued going so far down that rabbit hole that I was like, art, meh.

Christie Owen: You need a break.

Jessica Craddock: It all came back around. Yeah, it's going to knock that door down if you don't let it in, or if you don't open back up.

Christie Owen: It's refreshing, especially taking that time to take stock of everything and go, hey, that really worked for me, or that didn't work for me. Reassess and prioritize from that. Yeah, I think it's a good place to be.

I don't know what level I'm at in terms of like climbing around in the art world, but musicians are allowed to take off for years.

Jessica Craddock: That's true. That's a very valid point.

Christie Owen: It doesn't matter what year a song was made, right?

Jessica Craddock: You'd be maybe not amazed, but I am consistently amazed at how many people start talking to me in their retirement age, like 65. And they're like, I'm just getting back to making art. I forgot how much I loved it. I want to it again.

Christie Owen: That’s a great thing! It'll always be there for any artist. It's there for anybody. Let's put it that way. I think it’s a choice to make art.

Jessica Craddock: Someone left a comment on one of my Instagram posts about if you write a book, you're a writer. Just because you haven't written a novel in years, a writer. thing.

Christie Owen: Right. You are what you make. Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: You are what you do.

Christie Owen: We wear all these different hats these days. I think everybody's diversified, and there's no set point or time for anybody. Like, some people, like you said, start out later in life, even. I saw some woman had just started painting in her 70s, and she was doing amazing work. I don't want to wait that long. I want to do it now.

But when I feel I'm going to be producing good work, too. I'm not going to go in there and do it now and force myself anymore to make work. Commissions are like that. Right. I've done some commissions, and it's a love and hate because you're doing it for somebody else, and you want to fulfill their expectations. You want their mind to be blown. It's a very stressful thing if you're working on a really large project, to deliver somebody else's expectations.

Jessica Craddock: It’s not fully yours. It's partially theirs.

Christie Owen: But you know, quality. It’s the quality in the art. We always talked about that in Fringe. Is the quality there, good quality products and things like that make good art. So, there's that. It’s also, is it the style that person is seeking and the safety in making these geometric things, you know. It's okay, there's color and there’sgeometry. What colors do you like?

That's how I work on commissions. People have swatches and tiles and things from their home that they give me so I can match them. That's full on production mode.

[00:22:17] Not every artist needs to have an art business.

Jessica Craddock: And I really think sometimes it just depends. Like sometimes that's the right mode to be in, depending what needs and your goals, and do I have another source of income? Or do I have to this together so I eat this week?

Christie Owen: Different needs creates different art.  

Jessica Craddock: It's, it's totally different. And that's why I don't necessarily think that everyone should have art business. Like, it could take the joy out of it for you if you rely so heavily it to make money with it. Okay. Now I have to go make money, so now I'm going to do all these things that I don't really want to do. And I don't want to do any of them, you know, I hate doing art. And it turns into this thing that makes you sad because you got into it for something different. Thought well, I'll just make money with this thing I love, and then it ruins it for you. No, don't do that. Find another way. Supplement or just to have your painting be for you or like do what you need to do. Don't ruin it.

And some people love making money with their art. Some like they love business or they love the processes side of it. Yay for them, but not everyone's like that.

Christie Owen: Yeah, exactly. I agree with everything you just said. In fact, I've experienced that. And how can you pivot? How can you transition? How can you make it work for you? I have played tennis all my life, and I have seen women on the tennis court well into their nineties still playing. And they'll beat you. They'll have you moving for those balls. I feel like art is the same. You can always have that outlet there. You can always make something happen at any time.

I never expected to have success as an artist. I was told that I needed to get a technical trade in order to get to make an income. You'll be a starving artist. So, that's why the graphic design. I'm an art director. I'm a marketing director. And so, money is important. It is financial freedom. It allows you to do things.

But I think a really good question I've been asking myself lately is, if you didn't have to pull in an income, what is your dream scenario with art? Where are you going with that? Envision it. I believe in manifestation and I that if you can dream it, you can start building that. Cause it gives you a roadmap, right? So, place right. If you have a vision or just a rough idea of this situation, you want to be in. Like you said, your list. What are those minimum steps that I can take to move myself forward to that.

Jessica Craddock: And honestly, I would love to do that entire exercise with you. Let's see what we can do in just a couple of minutes here. So, you’ve been talking to yourself about this already. What’s the number one, non-negotiable thing you’ve come up with so far?

Christie Owen: What is it for me? Um, I'm going to focus on getting the work on the online platforms, and I also have the work for the shows. I'm going to have an art show in November here in Oklahoma and the art gallery in New York City, I was going to have a show. Covid canceled that for us, and so I am going to revisit that as well. That's one reason why I make art is so I can travel. That's the main thing that I'm getting into right now. Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: So, you said on the online platforms, and we already talked about that a little but why is that you want?

[00:26:25] There are ways to satisfy that need for simplicity.

Christie Owen: It's very helpful. Um, if I don't do the artwork archive, or maybe link into my website, or I want on my inventory, everything to be in 1 place as possible. I don't want to have to creating some simplicity.

Yeah, I don't want to have to open a bunch of different apps and update all I'm going to make a mistake, I'm really looking for 1 place to have everything. If the galleries want work, they go to this place. I have interior designers to that, you know, they just want to see what I have. I used to used to have an online shop, but I never kept it So got to sure to keep updated. I would just throw everything in a Google drive folder and send them a link, and I'd literally put the name and price and the size in the name of the file, because, that's thing I can think of because I used to do spreadsheets. I used to do this and that and all these things. And I'm like, Oh my what is the easiest way to send price?

You know, like a tear sheet. So it's, I'd like to definitely have it all in one place, although that may not be possible.

Also, this is something I've been saying to myself for many years, and really implement it. And I hope I will is that I put everything on my website first, blanket it to social media. This a huge thing I so guilty because in the past I would, Hey, let's just blast on Insta. And then I would never,

Jessica Craddock: So, the thing that I've heard so far is it allows me to travel. I want to more. I've also heard should, would like it if this would probably make me like getting work online platforms all in one space and on my website for social. You have to do those things. Like you said, the thing that you daughter to do, because not those because you want do them. them because you think will simplify your life.

Christie Owen: feel like organize everything. Mm-Hmm. .

Jessica Craddock: So back to the desire, if you didn't have to bring in an income, was your parameters for this, what else would your art look like?

Christie Owen: More large works. which would require a larger studio space. Yeah. And then more of a risk, right? So I'm going to focus on the smaller things and medium sizes.

Jessica Craddock: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Back up, back up.

Christie Owen: Because I can do right now.

Jessica Craddock: But every five small you make, you made big.

Christie Owen: Yes, absolutely. That's something I do for sure. I large canvases. I have work sitting here right in front of me but the thing is, is my storage situation. The inventory management of the large works, I will need a larger space. Which is a financial thing, right? I'm going to have to pay for that larger space. So, I've had larger before as well. It does allow me to make more work.

Jessica Craddock: You've told me two things you really want, like you crave, travel and large works. Part of this exercise is yeah, none of that seems realistic, but if I think outside the box a little bit, could it be realistic? And I'm not saying I have the answer for you, but maybe it's all your large canvases are the same size and they are stacked against unless are in a gallery. And they're just all in one and yeah, that's taking up a good chunk of your room, but they're all together. You’ve got your art making spot there.

Like when you start to think, how could this be possible, that’s when the problems and solutions that you didn't think of before, that's when you get them.

Christie Owen: Yeah. All nice and neat. I like that.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah, anything else on here? Large works, travel, what else?

[00:30:49] Having a vision for your work requires discipline to stay on task.

Christie Owen: To reach flow state when I'm making the work. To not feel safe, but to feel like, lost in it again to, to figure out a way to be excited about the creating. Aha moments, looking for that again, which obviously translates in the art when it's finished. People, when you look at art, you can tell. It can transfer that vibe. That's what art does. So, if I'm feeling flat and overproducing stuff that I'm not excited about, that's how the art is going to feel.

Jessica Craddock: You said I should be planning it more. If I could do it with sculpture, I can do it with painting. I should, I should, compared to, I want, when you're in flow state. It comes from one stroke then that translates into 14 more strokes, which translates into a finished body of work you realize what happened.

Christie Owen: It's quite a process, isn't it?

Jessica Craddock: But you told me how to do it.

Christie Owen: Right, right. So, it requires the discipline to stay on task, to be very clear about what it is you're wanting to do. This is the same with everything in life. This isn't just art. It’s you just having a vision of where you want to go.

I like your idea, what are these top three things that I want to do, that I can manifest this with? You know? I think that's a nice way to organize some type of setting. It's in the steps to get there, I think to define it.

Jessica Craddock: It's problem solving and it's creative thinking.

Christie Owen: And defining that is super important. Otherwise, you're just kind of lost. You need a roadmap.

Jessica Craddock: Right. And I think that do like that part. They may not realize they that but part where they get envision and the part where they get to to say, how can I make that out of nothing? And how can I think outside the box with tools that I have to get the outcome I want? Like that's the whole art process. It's just in a different form. So yours are travel, large work, state.

Christie Owen: Yes, that sounds nice and neat. It

Jessica Craddock: It does sound nice to and when it's simple like that, it's like, can that out.

Christie Owen: Sounds like a great plan already, but until, until I to um, artist version of myself, um, the small do well the art fairs. The in New York taking pieces. They've sold some larger, not super large works, not, not anything like a 5 foot by 7 They'll take, probably a 4 foot by 4 foot. They'll take larger than that and I sending them larger works. That would be really a priority. That, that is my priority this year to to talk to her. They're awesome. They have been around forever. So they've been through all of arts, and downs. So they're just wonderful.

And then locally 2 galleries for me is, is, is manageable as good. I think the good thing too about small work and large work is the small work, me play that. transfer to the larger work. So there is a reason for the small works, not only less risk, but less, inventory.

Jessica Craddock: I can get behind you are If is the purpose of it helps me make big work. Everything you were saying is reasonable and makes perfect sense and has lots of behind it. But it also felt like, well, these are the things I want. I'll that later when I feel, risky. But you don't really have any risk. I mean, you do, everyone has some risk, but you have a very low level of risk.

the the more you it, riskier it feels the more you it So I'm not, not telling you what to do. I'm just saying, notice that thought process and don't it keep you from going to that next step.

Christie Owen: Nice about the smaller works is you can put them all together and make a large work, right? That's kind of like an installation at that point, which that's, that's the modular attractive aspect these smaller works. And, um, that there's a reason for them and, when I'm ready to, it will transpire.

 I think setting these parameters is excellent, but don't get caught in them either, because there's always something on the other side and that just goes back to the happy accidents in my life.

Jessica Craddock: Finding things that you didn't think you wanted along the Yeah. Like example of the small works creating maybe an even bigger installation, then you make a painting and fall in love with that process, else, but

Christie Owen: yeah, it's, it's important to have those parameters. It's important to have those goals, at if if you have that, then you feel safer a little bit, you know, but it's,

Jessica Craddock: is and putting yourself the. Safe.

Christie Owen: Yeah, it's exciting. It's fun to be an artist right now. I will just always encourage anybody who makes art and turns it into a business to keep trying to find ways to enjoy that process and don't get burnt out, but if you do, that's okay. That is, that is probably pretty normal.

Jessica Craddock: It always an option to feel burnout.

 Yeah. Life happens, things happen. But art is absolutely magical and it brings people together. And it's a for you to, to relax and maybe from the world and else on. And so why I love art so much. That's my main reason for being an artist, so can't take that away from me or anybody else. else And I'm always going to make art. I'm excited, but I'm not putting the stress on myself to do too much this year.

Jessica Craddock: Flow state.

Christie Owen: Let's talk in a couple years.

Jessica Craddock: Flow state is on the list.

Christie Owen: Flow state is a big place be. Yeah, when it's clicking for sure. Yeah, then you're really alive. You're really excited. So sometimes it's easier that somebody else than yourself as well. You know, it's easier to be, making art for somebody else or do, that's the nice thing about that, you know, like, to be an apprentice for somebody. And you're working with them on their art, let them handle all the stress of trying to their state. You'll the production. I've been the production side of, working under a sculptor and that fun because. You're literally working, and making art and, somebody else's, but you are learning. I think learning is a big part of the excitement factor. That's trying to find a new kind of to tie everything together, even though maybe it like I've always done, but for me, I'm really to make it all cohesive. Right.

Jessica Craddock: I'm going to give you one more recommendation find it and then I need to wrap up.

[00:38:49] Identifying your strengths and weaknesses can provide focus.

Jessica Craddock: There's an online test you can take called Gallop Strength Finder. It’s an opportunity to keep learning.

Christie Owen: I love learning.

Jessica Craddock: It gives like your top five or ten things that you really excel at. Learning is one of mine. I love that. And then what's at the bottom too. And so, it's all about learning how to work in your strengths. So, when you're refining this little three things that we were putting together. Thinking about what are my strengths, putting those in there as well, what am I naturally good at?

Christie Owen: Boils it down for you. That’s perfect! I love what you're doing. I just think it's awesome that you're helping artists get the best out of their art making and what they’re doing with their art. It's great. Like, I watch you all the time. I love it.

Jessica Craddock: Part of this is part of the journey to figure out what are the things that I’m really good at, and how do I turn that into my job?

Christie Owen: Right. So you aren’t working a day in your life.

Jessica Craddock: Right.

Christie Owen: You're on fire. You just, you're really excited. And I had a moment like that last week, like three days in a row, it was just three days of art making in a row, right? You know, it was great. And I made a lot of stuff.

 Jessica Craddock: How often does that actually happen? That's kind of a rarity.

Christie Owen: Once my studio's up and running, I'll be fine. It's the studio not being ready to work in that has me kind of on pause as well. So, yeah, I think it's going to be fun once done. And I'll feel much better about making art in that space.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. Christy, because I have to, where can people find your work? Where should they go?

Christie Owen: To my website, Christie Owen .com and secondary would be. Well, you can go to Instagram or Saatchi. You can also find my work at the two galleries. I have a gallery here in Oklahoma City, and one in New York City. My artwork's also on Artsy and First Dibs. So, you can go on those platforms as well and put my name in. It’s Christie Owen, but there’s no S at the end of the N. A lot of people want put an S there.

Jessica Craddock: It’s been so good to catch up with you.

Christie Owen: Yes. I want to catch up with you again. And talk again when things are maybe on a different level.

Jessica Craddock: And even if they aren't, let’s be talking again.

Christie Owen: Yeah, that'd be cool. Thank you so much for having me.

Jessica Craddock: You’re welcome. Thanks for being here.

Christie Owen: All right, bye.

Jessica Craddock: Bye.