“How do I gain exposure for my unique product?” – Megan Spindler E55

Jessica: Welcome back to Intuitive Art Sales. I am here with Megan Spindler, who is a paint and collage artist. And right now, kind of what she's doing with her work is actually building up a library of things that she can pull from for her graphic design work. She is multi passionate. She's kind of learning that she doesn't have to choose between a day job and art and that day job can actually provide some structure and financial stability.

So she's kind of molding them together at the moment and still really looking for that thing that she wants to sell and others want to buy. So that's kind of where we're at at this moment in time.

Welcome, Megan. How are you doing?

Megan Spindler: Thank you. I'm great.

Jessica: I'm so glad to hear that. Okay. So just for context, can you explain a little bit more what I meant by paint and collage artist and your graphic design work? I know that you have kind of one specific thing that you've been focusing on selling. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Yes, I've been learning that my alcohol ink painting or, taking pieces of older work and cutting them apart and placing them in different ways or painting something and then digitally collaging it together, allows me the chance to create a library of things that I can then use to put on greeting cards or, these centerpieces I've been using for events. They spark a conversation, and I find those stories that people have, whether it's about their relationship or a journey they've been on. And I can pull the pieces of their story and then work it in with something I've created to make a beautiful paper piece that they can use for a celebration.

Okay, so generally, if I'm remembering correctly, you are selling these to people for weddings or for like a non profit organization who's hosting a fundraiser. Is there any other contexts which I'm missing here?

Megan Spindler: I've done a few for corporate anniversaries, and then for, birthdays or weddings. I've done some work for even celebration of life to highlight someone special and showcase some of their passions and interests in a way that kind of starts the conversation when you're sitting at a 10 top table full of people and they may or may not be, aware of each other. Or they may have different connections to the person or the organization that this would be a thing they could grab and pick up and say, Oh yeah, me too, or, Oh, there's some fun facts or trivia, or, three things to know about or, something about their mission and vision.

Jessica: Great. So, you are creating centerpieces using a mix of elements, one being your art, one being really listening to the people or the brand or the organization and finding a story within it that you get to tell about them. Also, it's not just a pretty thing. It's really something that deepens that I feel like there's a better word than this, but that connection between the people at the event so that it can be a more successful event, right?

Megan Spindler: Yes.

Jessica: Okay. And how did you get to. Like, how did you end up saying, I'm going to make centerpieces with my art? How did that happen?

So it's a, it's a 12 by 18 piece of paper that's folded in a very specific way. And you cut certain parts and fold it onto itself, and it stands up by itself. And I saw someone. Make it maybe it was on TV like a craft show or something like that and I ended up making them for Showcasing some of the pictures of my kids as they were growing up like all those like month milestones that they have I made them and then grandmas and grandpas and aunts and uncles would put them on their desk or on the kitchen counter.

Some of them are still on the fireplace mantle and it just kind of captured a moment in time. I tried to include pictures that showed what they were interested in or what we were doing as a family at the time. I was offering them, especially for like a destination wedding, they fold up flat, so you can package them really easily and take them with you. And then people started telling me that they were, swiping them from the tables, that they had to quick grab one as the host before other people came through. And so I was trying to just build on what other people were using them for. Yeah.

Jessica:Do you like making them?

Megan Spindler: I like making them. I think they're different, but sometimes different gets complicated, and it's hard to explain what it is. When we've talked in the past, I explained the features of it instead of all the benefits sometimes.

Jessica: Can you, in your words, describe the difference between features and benefits?

Megan Spindler: The feature is like how tall it is or how many pictures go on it or what kinds of things you could submit to place on the pages. But the benefit would be maybe how you feel or what kind of problem you're solving or, people get from it or, how they're transformed, maybe when they're interacting with it.

Jessica:  I know I'm, I'm really putting you on the spot here, but it's 8 a. m. for me, and so I'm going to make you do more talking today. What can you name a, let's get specific here. So we've got a nonprofit and they are asking about your centerpieces, and I'm doing this for a reason because I feel like it's really useful for people to learn how to talk about their work in a more effective way.

And I just wanted to like real quick sidebar on that. So we're hosting a nonprofit event. We are interested in your centerpieces. I'm talking to you about it. What are one or two or three benefits that they would get and why?

Megan Spindler: So this centerpiece would spark conversations with the people at each of the tables. They might not know each other. 

Jessica: I wanted to add something.

Megan Spindler: Yes.

Jessica: Spark conversations at the people at the dinner tables, so that...

Megan Spindler: ...So that they find some common threads of interests or reasons why they're interested in supporting your organization.

Jessica: Good, you pulled it back to the, the person buying it.

Megan Spindler: Yes. Okay. So that each of them generating their reason for being there or how they know you or, like they're already kind of advocating for your group by sharing their connection to you and their stories. Why they think it's important.

[00:07:51] Ask yourself why your ideal art buyers want your product.

Jessica: This is really common sales training. So I'm just going to give you a quick overview real quick. When you are asking why somebody might want something, you ask yourself, Why? Why? Because it's pretty. But why would they think it's pretty because they grew up in the Catskills and they love that type of landscape.

Why would they think that's great? Because it reminds them of their grandma. I don't know, like just going deep, deep, deep into the why. And then also if you can add a so that, "so that... This. This centerpiece will feature the art of the Catskill Mountain so that we can really remember grandma and how she used to do this and that and that and that. That "so that" really helps people understand the benefit. So the benefit is great on its own. We want to get to the benefit, but then even the "so that" might be a benefit a step below that.

Megan Spindler: Mm hm

Jessica: I'm explaining this in the context of probably someone who is selling something like Megan, like a centerpiece or some, a mural or something along those lines, not necessarily. I mean, if you can do it with your art, great, but it is a little bit harder to use benefits and so that's for a piece of art. Try it, see what you can come up with. But I'm really thinking more about a product here. So sorry about that. Went down a rabbit hole. I was asking you about, do you like making these centerpieces?

How did you start? And back to what we said at the very beginning. These are your words, not mine. You said, I'm still looking for the thing I want to sell and others want to buy. So I know that you have sold a fair amount of these. So is it that others don't want to buy them as much as you think they should, or you're not as into them as you want to be?

Like, why did you say that?

Megan Spindler: Well, some of it comes from the benefits that I feel like I've said what I said, and like to make more about it, is challenging. When you look for SEO words or keywords that people might search for that aren't so popular, people aren't searching for that or it's, the words I can find that feel like they relate, they're either too competitive or. And I guess if you were building relationships and talking directly to people instead of focusing on content, but I understand how some of that content stuff should work.

Jessica: Yeah.

Megan Spindler: But the words are just not there that makes sense for what someone would be looking for, or I don't describe it the same way I struggle a lot with anything that I create, even the art.

Jessica: Okay, so what I hear you saying is that, while people do like what you make and you like what you make. It's like an education process instead of something that someone is already searching out. And you think it would be easier if you could find something that people are already looking for, as opposed to having to tell people what you make and why they should buy it, et cetera, et cetera.

Does that sound right?

Megan Spindler: Yes. But sometimes I'm convincing people to buy a card or a centerpiece that actually is for someone else's party or to recognize someone else and what they've done and accomplished.

 It still works like there's still benefit to the person who made the purchase, but I have to kind of convince them, and people buy gifts all the time, but it doesn't always fit in a gift category. And if you're working with, like, the parents of the couple, I've come into some conflict when, you know, the mother of the couple gets all excited and wants to share something from her point of view about them, but it doesn't actually match their theme or the party that they wanna throw. And so now you've made this piece and you either have to edit it to now fit someone else's vision, or you have to kind of leave it where it's in conflict.

Jessica: Okay, so I see a couple of different roads here. One is, centerpieces get dropped. One is make peace with the fact that it is what it is and create some more structured processes around making it easier to sell and execute. Or three, Oh, word of mouth marketing. So for the purpose of this conversation, I'm not saying that this has to be your choice or decision, but which what avenue would you like to explore?

Megan Spindler: I guess maybe the systems one.

Jessica: Okay.

Megan Spindler: I had started writing down how I would sort of interview someone about their stories and what kind of questions I might ask them because we had talked about including in the package, like a virtual meeting that they put for a certain amount of time and they could have a certain number of people join in, to share their thoughts.

And then I would take all that, and instead of just being over email and then submitting their facts and trivia and pictures that they want to include, it would actually be a conversation and more personal. And then I could sift through and find some of the details that I found intriguing to be able to include even more personality and make them more memorable.

Jessica: Having a meeting with the decision makers, the ones who are going to at some point say, no, I didn't want that. I wanted this, or whatever.

Megan Spindler: Correct.

Jessica: How's that going?

Megan Spindler: Well, I don't have anybody to like, I haven't used it. I started the questions so I would either have to reach out to someone to practice it or to, you know, that could be part of the promotion of it, that they're helping me out so that, you know, maybe they get a deal on it or, or something like that.

So back to me working well, where the art is like a conversation between me and the art and, and working best by moving the pieces around, I don't have any input. I don't have anything coming in to be able to collage this. idea of centerpieces together and have that conversation. I don't have the leads coming in to be able to practice that.

Jessica: So we currently do not have any projects to work on.

Megan Spindler: Correct. The one I was excited to do it, ended up being other paper pieces centerpieces. The centerpieces don't fit into the typical categories that a directory of a party services would have. They have like decor and rentals, so it kind of fits there as decor, or they have stationary, so it kind of fits there. it's always either crossing boundaries or doesn't quite fit.

[00:15:35] Collaborations can help you build a reputation through word-of-mouth.

Jessica: I actually think that's a good thing because you don't have any competition. Well, you're like, you said decor and rentals, you said stationary, none of those people are doing what you're doing. And we said, we were going to talk about structure, but I think part of that is the word of mouth. So in my mind, I'm thinking about some sort of collaborations. I'm thinking about you maybe finding a couple of really aligned, maybe organizations or nonprofits or people who have some deeper pockets.

And actually offering to create them for them, just out of the goodness of your heart, but using it to practice your process as well as use it as free advertising.  this model that I am thinking about in my head, you're doing some work for free.

Megan Spindler: Okay.

Jessica: How do you feel about that? Does that feel icky or are you like, okay. Because I don't want to go too deep into it if it feels.

Megan Spindler: Yeah. I've done it before. for other things. And so some of that is okay and understandable. So I don't feel terrible about it. I would be okay with that to practice.

Jessica: So, in my mind, these are the best ones you've ever done. You nail them out of the park, right? Which is hard to do, a little bit, when you're like, I'm working for free here. But, these types of people throw lots of events.

Megan Spindler: Mm hmm.

Jessica: Even if... that was your only starting, strategy, where it was, I'm going to find these organizations, I'm going to find these non profits. I'm going to do one for free for them, and have some sort of follow up process or relationship building process or something in place where it's not like I'm just doing it and then disappearing. So that, so that, see, I did so that, um, so that we can hopefully get on their table for half of their yearly events on a regular basis. If we can do that with five or six or 10 different organizations, all of a sudden you're busy.

Megan Spindler: Mm hmm. Right.

Jessica: What do you think about that? You want to explore that?

Megan Spindler: The panic coming up is I don't know anybody who does that or I attempted to follow up with the group that I worked for last time, and just didn't hear back. I guess I sent a card. I don't know that I, it may have been one followup, so maybe it just wasn't enough followup.

Jessica: Well, a card is nice and it's great followup, but it's not something they're necessarily going to respond to.

Megan Spindler: Right.

Jessica: Okay, so, you don't know anybody, is the main panic, like, I can't execute that because I don't know anybody. Yes. So Megan is in my Consistent Income group again, so that she knows what I'm talking about. I will try to narrate. I am drawing on my paper, the ideal art buyer map.

Jessica: When was the last time you looked at that or completed that?

Megan Spindler: I saved it and brought it because that was the, when we were talking about ornaments the other day, that was the homework you gave me and I looked at it again.

Jessica: Great.

Megan Spindler: I wrote down, you know, places I've worked, places I went to school, places my kids and family are part of, like through their schools, under the 'You' category. Subject matter, I put nature, water, waves and light reflecting.

Jessica: Oh, these are for the ornaments, right?

Megan Spindler: No, no, it was just, that was subject matter. That was just, I often say, like, nature and architecture inspire me, but then you kind of taught me to try to go deeper, like the why, and trying to go deeper into just, instead of just nature. And that other piece I had, like collage and collecting things and layering and texture. I also had like awareness of your surroundings and observation and the space around you. Joy from moments, surprise and delight, belonging. I often want to help people feel seen, that comes up a lot. And also like the people who kind of fly under the radar, but that gets back to like convincing someone else to notice them sometimes.

For the third circle for message essence, I had written down, we had talked about these two, the, the words I had picked for values were connection, exploration, purposeful actions, generosity, generosity, generosity, sustainability, and then we had talked and we kind of transitioned all of that into sort of being a good human. And then maybe something about like flexibility or, kind of on the track of your spaciousness value.

Jessica: Gotcha. Okay. So what she just did, we have this exercise where there are three circles that overlap. So it's like the two circles overlap and then what is that called?

Megan Spindler: Venn diagram.

Jessica: Okay. Venn diagram.

One of the circles is about people and places that will connect with you as a person, not necessarily have anything to do with your art. One of those circles is about the things that you really deeply value. Like she said, connection and exploration and generosity and sustainability. So those kinds of ideas or messages that you want to get out with your work.

And then that third circle is more about the subject matter or the style. So she kind of listed some elements that she had put into each of those circles. So when you said, I don't know anyone, the easiest place to start would be the 'You' circle. So you said places I've worked. Where have you worked? That might be sort of relevant.

Megan Spindler: I've worked at architecture firms, the school district.

Jessica: Okay I'm calling BS on the "I don't know anybody."

Megan Spindler: Well, so that's the whole bit about like, I have a Master's in Architecture. And I keep telling people I'm an architect, but I haven't practiced any official architecture in.

[00:23:47] Recognize the reasons for your hesitation in reaching out to make connections.

Jessica: Okay. So you do know people, but there's all these reasons why they might think things about you or you might feel weird or like, that's what's happening. It's more of a filter of here's why I can't, as opposed to, I don't know anybody.

Megan Spindler: Yes.

Jessica: Okay. That's a whole different issue.

Megan Spindler: Okay. I have issues with asking people, for finding people that I would talk to or want to support. I invited two people to the art crawl that I did last weekend.

 I sat, I did email so that I would have just the message and I could have my sentence. It took. Well, I knew I was going to do it from the last time, which was in August because I didn't do it in August. So it, it took two or three months. I knew the people I was going to ask from my orbit list. And I did it two days before the event, and I was really glad I did. And they were very kind to me. Then it always feels like they're doing me a favor or I don't always see it as me providing them something that they wanted also, or them getting a chance to pay me for a part I've sent them or noticing them.

Jessica: If you are listening and you can resonate, I just want you to raise your hand real quick. We're gonna pretend we're on a group call . Everybody's raising their hand. Okay, so let's back up for just a smidge. You started to tell me about this before we hit record. Mm hmm. And you just went down a different path. You said, well, but I don't know if I'm providing something that they want, and am I really, and it's more for me, and blah, blah, blah. But what happened with those two people? How did they react? What did they say? What happened?

Megan Spindler: I mean, almost an instant reply, you know, yes, of course, I'm coming, and I really wanted it to be like that I would practice talking to them. I didn't necessarily mean for them to come and buy something, but they sent a representative when they weren't feeling well paid for my booth fee, right? So like, it felt good, but it also felt like an obligation or well, they didn't have to do that. Like they were like, I was still owing them something. And then the other person,

Jessica: Wait. Hold on, stop. You invited someone. They were sick. They couldn't come. They sent their husband. Their husband bought something from you. It paid for your booth fee, and then you felt guilty about inviting them.

Megan Spindler: Well, I, I feel very grateful that they, and I, once I invited the two people, like, I kind of went, oh, who else can I invite? Yeah, I was kind of on a roll, and I looked through my Orbit list. But I kind of cross people out that, no, I really can't invite them or no, I just talked to that person. And this isn't the right event for that. Or like, I had a lot of baggage around the people on my list.

Jessica: You basically nixed everybody. No, I'm not going to cuz, cuz, cuz, cuz. I'm gonna say, one, I do that in my head. Every time. Still. Two, I'm still learning to work through it, but I do it anyway. Because half the time I was right and half the time they were like, Oh, yeah, I'm so excited. That would be so great. I'm like, what, what, huh? And the more times that happens, the more I realize I don't get to choose for other people. That is their business. They deserve the chance to have the autonomy to make their own decision rather than me deciding for them. So it's almost like you're doing them a disservice if you cross them off. And if they say no, they say no.

Megan Spindler: Right.

Jessica: So what? They're not interested right now. Okay, cool. I sent a message to somebody recently. I don't even remember what it was about. And she said, no, I'm too busy right now. And I've done this for so long that it didn't even affect me. And I just had this overwhelming desire to write back to her. You're a peach emoji. Like I was just like, I just appreciate you whether or not you can come. I don't care. It just made me feel happy that. I had pushed myself to the point where there was no negative reaction to a no, I just wanted to send them a peach emoji. I don't know where it came from, it just did. But anyway, so, yes, you're there, I get it, I do, I swear I do. And... I also know what happens when you choose to not stay there.

So without going into like limiting belief examiners and all that, cause we don't have time for that today. I'm going to say, you know, people and let's make a number. How many, and actually I don't really want to make a number, but I want to make a number that's a starting number to say, okay, I tried that, and here's how I feel about it. So if we're talking about these promotional table centerpieces, how many of them would we like to offer before the end of the year? Not offer, but like actually execute. How many of them would we like to execute?

Megan Spindler: Five jumped into my head.

Jessica: Five jumped into my head too. Let's do five.

Megan Spindler: Okay, five.

[00:29:19] Sometimes it might be necessary to try things you're not getting paid for.

Jessica: Which the pluses of that are, it can actually turn your business around. Minuses are you're not getting paid for it right now. Are we okay with that?

Megan Spindler: Yes.

Jessica: Sometimes there's those periods where we got to like try things that we're not getting paid for. And I don't, I don't love offering that advice, but I think that that's your quickest shortcut. Mm So. The reason why we did the Ideal Art Buyer Circle is because I really wanted to see what stood out to me as far as places to start. Places I've worked, your kid's school, and your school, all stood out to me. Those are like, the easy buttons.

Megan Spindler: Mm hmm.

Jessica: Sustainability and good human stood out. Mm hmm. So, really what we're thinking about is... Do I know, or do I know anyone who knows people in a business? This may be like a telephone game. Hey Sarah, do you know anyone who works in a non profit where they're just good humans? Oh yeah, I know somebody who's a janitor for them. Can you hook me up with the janitor? Hey janitor, I'm looking to connect to the person who does events. I want to offer something cool, but I don't know, I'm saying this terribly, but like, how do you play the telephone game to get to more people if they're not already around you?

And this might be a scenario where you're using the momentum boosters. So picking one like opportunities already around you, or it might be one like inspired action, like where do I really want to be? No, it's inspired ideas aligned action. Anyway, where do I really want to be? If I could pick anywhere in my city to talk to someone about this, where would I go? It might be that you switch back and forth, but when you can put it through that momentum booster, I think you'll have an easier time of it.

Megan Spindler: Okay.

Jessica: We need to wrap up, but I want you to feel like I'm ready to move forward with this. What's the one more thing you need in order to feel like, okay, I can go start on this today.

Megan Spindler: How do I make it sound like I'm not just asking for, well, I guess maybe I am asking for a favor, but like. It's hard for me to ask for a favor or feel like I'm owing someone. How can I do it so it's more exciting? And maybe it's the momentum booster thing, but like, how is it worded so it's not apologetic or,

Jessica: Yeah, you don't want to come off as apologetic because. Then you're like, already shooting yourself in the foot before you're starting. So, do you remember my thing about just saying the thing?

Megan Spindler: Yes.

Jessica: So, in this instance, it might sound something like, Hey Megan. My name is Megan too. How cool is that? I have a graphic design party business. I don't know if that's how you describe it, but my head was going there earlier. A graphic design party business where one of the main things that I offer are centerpieces. That, so that, benefits, so that, I'm trying to get it off the ground through word of mouth marketing. And you are an organization I admire because... if you have any interest. I would love to gift you some centerpieces for your next event. Would you be interested in chatting?

Megan Spindler: Okay. Yeah.

Jessica: Like the more you try to like cover up your motivation, the more wiggly it feels and the more honest you are, the more people are like, yeah, that sounds great. I mean, I can help you out while you're helping me out. Sure. Why not?

Megan Spindler: Right.

Jessica: And some people are going to say no. And I don't want those people to discourage you because other people are going to say yes.

Megan Spindler: But instead of that being a cold pitch to some organization, It would be better if there was some connection there first.

Jessica: It's always better if there is, but in this instance, we're not asking for anything from them. We're actually offering them something. We're being vulnerable. We are complimenting them and telling them why we believe in what they're doing. We are relating to them by anticipating why they would want it in the first place and speaking to them about that.

So it's not like this cold pitch that you get in your email all the time. I don't know if you get these, but I get them. I hate them. Hey, I'm a product developer and I work for people who blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, What does that have to do with me? And why are you emailing me? I don't like you obviously have done no research, no, nothing.

I got a cold pitch the other day for someone wanting to help me with my podcast and I don't remember what it was they said specifically, but I actually replied to it and I'm like, yeah, tell me more information. It was something like, they had really listened to a podcast or read my about page and like referenced me and were very real human, not pitchy. Yeah, I was like sure tell me more about it now since I've replied well, they've emailed me probably 20 times since then so I'm regretting it a little bit but...

Okay, so we've got a pitch.

Megan Spindler: Yes.

Jessica: We've got some places to start.

Megan Spindler: Okay.

Jessica: We've got an idea. And I know that this is not a full, complete strategy. The first problem to solve is actually getting some of these. As soon as you get one. The next problem to solve is how do we continue to build a relationship and follow up with these people so that they hire us for their next event? But for right now, bring your questions about how do I get more of these or where do I look or remind me what to say or whatever.

Megan Spindler: Okay.

Jessica: Okay. Perfect. So where can people find examples of your work or where can they contact you? Where do you want people to go, Megan?

Megan Spindler: The website is smilesbymegan. com. And the Instagram handle is Smiles by Megan Studios.

Jessica: Perfect. Megan is M E G A N in case there's other weird spellings, Okay, great. This was fun. I know you've got to get off to your plans today, and so do I. So thank you again for being flexible with this schedule, and I appreciate you.

Megan Spindler: Absolutely. Thank you so much!

Jessica: You're welcome. All right. We'll talk again soon, Megan.

Megan Spindler: Take care. Bye bye.

Jessica: Bye.