“How can I prioritize my time to better balance my art and my family life?” – Ingrid Fraser E52

Jessica: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Intuitive Art Sales. I am here with Ingrid Fraser all the way from Scotland. She is an oil landscape painter who mostly paints about people's connection to the landscape, which often looks like through the eyes of Scotland and its history, understandably, she has been painting and exhibiting and saying that she is an artist since she left art school 17 years [00:01:00] ago.

Her art business isn't where it's fully self sustaining yet, but she's proven that she can paint and she can sell it time and time again. But she doesn't feel like she's created a whole lot of momentum, especially since she's got a three year old and a six year old and, you know, she's just kind of getting into that childcare phase.

So that is where we are starting today. Welcome, Ingrid. How are you today?

Ingrid Fraser: I'm good. Hi, Jessica. I'm so glad you're

Jessica: here. Thank Okay, so where I like to start with these interviews, besides getting some little background information on you, is just to letting you have the space to talk for a minute about what's going on with you.

What's happening in your life and in your business at the moment?

Ingrid Fraser: Okay. I am excited to have [00:02:00] more time and more space to create than I have for quite a few years. I'm hoping that I'm getting to a stage where I can be. A little bit stricter with myself in doing what I need to do, what I want to do and painting what I want to do and not what I think I should be doing or what I think will sell.

I want to be more successful and I want to acknowledge the success that I've got and build on it.

Jessica: Great. I love to hear you say that. I want to acknowledge the success that I have had and build on it and not just be hard on yourself for what has or hasn't happened because yeah. It's life. Okay. When we were talking a minute ago, you said something about, I am really good at prioritizing everything else first.

Yes. And yes, we have a [00:03:00] beautiful family. We have our lives, we have all of these things, but how do I say this without saying it the wrong way? Cause I really want to make sure that I emphasize that those things are very important, but also you said, I want to have more success with my art career and I'm putting it last.

Ingrid Fraser: Not gonna happen if I don't put it a bit higher up the list. Right.

Jessica: So what else, besides children, are you prioritizing above your creative practice, your art business, whatever you want to call it. Just on a normal day. Let's say yesterday.

Ingrid Fraser: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I, well, yesterday was a very unusually art first day cause I had a meeting first thing in the morning with a new face, which was very exciting, but today I decided I couldn't go and sit down and finish a painting that I started last week or a drawing, the drawings that I was doing the week [00:04:00] before because I had to clear away five loads of washing and I probably had to walk the dog.

And it would probably be a good idea to go and shift a pile of paperwork that's been sitting for four months. I'm very good at finding 10 or 12 other things that, even when I know I have two and a half hours and that the drawing that I want to finish will probably take me one hour, instead of going and doing that first, I will do all those other domestic things first.

And that's partly because I'm creating in that domestic space, and it's not so easy to kind of shut a door and walk away from it.

Jessica: Is it okay if I dig a little bit?

Ingrid Fraser: Yeah.

Jessica: Is there any other reasons why you think you might put those things first?

Ingrid Fraser: I don't know. I find if I'm in the middle of paintings, I know where it's going and what I'm doing it for.

If I say I've got a deadline or I've decided that I want to get these six paintings finished, Before a [00:05:00] holiday or before something else that's coming up, and I'm working on those sex paintings all at once, I will stop feeding people, I will stop doing dishes, nobody will get a walk, nobody will get any interaction from me, and I will just go and do those things.

But before I get to that point... I'm very good at procrastinating. The idea of sitting down and doing that drawing is going, well, I'm not happy with that drawing and I don't think it's going to be what I want it to be, or I shouldn't be doing that drawing. I probably should have done something else. So there's always putting off the thing, unless I'm right in the middle of paintings that I'm really enjoying, and I, I know where they're going and how, how they're going to end up.

I think until I get to that middle point, I'm very good at putting everything else first.

Jessica: Is it like a, a fear of them not, is, is that what I'm hearing? A fear of them not turning out the way you want them to. And so it's like a, a waste of time when I could be getting all these [00:06:00] other things done. Is that it?

Ingrid Fraser: Yeah. Yeah. I think there's an element of that. I think there's also an element of a fear of if I go and do it, I'm not going to want to stop again. And then I'll just get frustrated as well.

Jessica: Just out of curiosity, do you relate to the term ADHD?

Ingrid Fraser: No. Particularly, but I'm not very good at terms.

[00:05:44] Brainstorm what’s causing you to procrastinate.

Jessica: So, please don't think I'm trying to diagnose you, because I, I don't think I have nearly enough information to do that, nor am I in any way qualified to do so, but I'm just hearing myself in you. And when I get into a project and I'm in it, I can't do anything else. If someone comes down the stairs and asks me a question, I get so annoyed because I get pulled out of whatever I'm in.

And I was there and it takes me so long to get back to it. And it's just that element [00:07:00] of like that, that deep dive. But before that deep dive, you tell me to do something. I'm like, Oh, I can't focus on that. I'm doing 800 different things. So I was just wondering, and again, please don't think I'm diagnosing you because I'm not, and I'm not saying that you are, I just related to that.

So it becomes what I'm hearing is a matter of, how can I balance that a bit better? The, I'm either going to put it off, put it off, put it off, put it off, or I'm all the way in it.

Ingrid Fraser: Yeah. Yeah. My, my structure to my week or my time does not fit my working method, definitely. And I think I've always managed to put something, even when I didn't have children, even when I would always...

I created part time jobs that, that were very strange, little hours here and little hours there that would disrupt a routine so that I [00:08:00] wouldn't have that space and time to just be in it. I, yeah, I've always seemed to have created some form of structure in my life that then doesn't fit the creative process.

Jessica: Yeah. I feel like it's an ever evolving process. Like I'm always experimenting with different things in order to give myself the structure that I need and I also feel like it doesn't often stay the same. Like I will fluctuate between different structures that will work for me for a while and then they'll stop working. And then I'll go over to a different one and then I've never done it this way.

[00:08:37] Determine what success looks like from your point of view.

Let's try it this way. Do you think it would be helpful for us to maybe talk through how we could create a, at least a for now structure to be able to get, I don't even want to say more done because it's not about doing more. It's about having the time and the space to do the [00:09:00] things that create that momentum that you're looking for.

So actually, Hmm, can we rewind just a bit before we go there? And you said, I've already had some success and I want to build on that. Can we talk about what that success looks like from your point of view? Like, what have you done that has led to success?

Ingrid Fraser: Okay. Yeah. I think the things that I think of is the fact that I have been painting for 17 years and although I have some paintings in a store in my cupboard, the majority of those paintings have sold over the years.

The people that have bought my work tend to have... not just one painting, but four or five. And in some cases more than that, to the point that they're going like, I actually cannot buy any more paintings. [00:10:00] But that is maybe, there is maybe five people or six people that are like that. I have sold to people that I have never met and I have, you know, I've, I've put work down to London shows early on when I was just starting out and that work has sold and not come back to me.

I've had people come and ask me for commissions. I've had a couple of galleries take me on and do solo shows, but all of these things were kind of. Yeah.

Jessica: Felt like one offs.

Ingrid Fraser: Yeah. Yes. Or when I have had a show, like. If I think about one of the solo shows that I had and that was a wonderful opportunity. And it was a really great thing to do. When we got there

and when I had created all this work and, and kind of paid for the materials to do that and the framing, and then got that work there, the majority of people that then turned up to that show and bought work were people that I already had a connection with. So, so yeah, so I would say the most success I have had, you know, early on there was, there was [00:11:00] success in terms of.

I got a prize and a national award the year after I was out of art school and building on that got me into those London shows. And off the back of that I had a couple of, of solo shows, but we're now talking sort of like 15 years ago. I've still kind of chipped away at things, but never, every time I've got work into a gallery, if it hasn't sold or if it has sold, it's been somebody I've kind of had a connection to myself and brought that person into that show.

I've never got to that stage where I've made a show and it has, off the back of that, I've got another show or off the back of that, I have made more connections. I think that's, you asked me about what makes success is more or not what I was doing wrong.

Jessica: No, no. It actually sounds like you're doing a lot of things right, but there's just some little tweaks.

Yeah. So I'm curious to ask you, actually, if I said. I need you to sell a piece by the end of the week, or I need you to [00:12:00] schedule your next show by the end of the week, or just find your next opportunity by the end of the week. Where would you go? Do you have, for lack of a better word, any leads that you could create your next thing from?

Ingrid Fraser: I'm not sure. I feel like a lot of things that I am creating leads from at the moment, and the things that I've been doing since I became a mother and since, you know, since we've moved areas are very artist led. It's things that I've, you know, I've done Hobo shows in the last couple of years, or I have connected with a small arts collective nearby that have a space.

So that's the next thing I have coming up, that I'm organizing a small exhibition in their space. So I had a meeting yesterday with our local visitor center where I have, through listening to your podcast and, and following you on Instagram, I've done a couple of brief things and I'm creating little opportunities.

But I feel like they are opportunities that are [00:13:00] not necessarily in any way going to make me a sale or in any way going to guarantee an income that if I could do something that I had a connection to already to sell a painting by the end of the week, I would have done it last week. That's how I feel at the moment. I did a pop up job last year. We did two years in a row, and the first year it was quite successful. I brought people into that who bought work from me in a way it was creating a space for them to come and see the work, and that worked. I’ve gone to a gallery and said, would you like five or six pictures? And they're like, you know, yes, that'd be great. And then four months later, those four, five or six pictures have come back because they haven’t sold.

I've not built on that and gone, oh, well, maybe that was the wrong thing. I just didn't push that connection. Or I think, oh, well, that didn't work, and I just leave it lying.

[00:13:53] Look for opportunities over sales.

Jessica: Have you ever heard me say to look for opportunities over sales? [00:14:00] So what you described a bit ago was I got this award and that led to this show and inside of that show that led to these other shows.

And I'm assuming there were probably some sales in there as well. Inside of these things where you're like, well, I don't know if this is going to lead to an income. Instead, it's about that exposure that you start with, where you find all of the things that lead to more exposure. And some of those lead to sales.

And some of those lead to more exposure, and that's the momentum that you're describing. And I know that you can do that because you've done it before, but it's also really easy to get all heady about it and go, well, this isn't going to lead to a sale, so I don't know if this is even worth it and should I do this?[00:15:00]

If you can almost switch that mindset from, is this going to lead to a sale to, is this going to lead to. Any opportunities, if you're looking for them, I think they always show up. It might be, I'm going to introduce you to this friend who actually is a gallery owner, or I know someone who loves that spot and I want to show them your painting.

Or, you know, it can be little bitty opportunities that happen, but you do have to, if it's been a while since we've created any of those, let's start from scratch because you still have that network of people who are buying from you when you put yourself out there. But we have to start from scratch with the putting ourselves back out there.

Ingrid Fraser: That's where I think I'm at. Definitely. I'm trying, trying to create opportunities where I can put myself in front of people and go, hello. I wrote [00:16:00] down a little thing before we started of what I thought my plan is right now. And I figured out where you would, you would tell me my plan is completely different to what I think it is that I need to meet more people and then actually tell them that I paint.

Um, and then I need to find a way to, to, to build on that set. The things that I have started at the moment, trying to do these little local exhibitions and I'm trying to think about them not going well there, even if I put a dozen small little pictures in them, even if I sold all, all of those, they're not going to make me the income that I want, right?

But the purpose of that being to put me in front of more people and to make more connections. But I don't seem to know how I get from that point of me standing in front of somebody and going, I paint pictures to them then coming to my next big show and buying a painting off of me because they feel a connection.

I'm really good at doing that with people I know, but I don't know how to then build that into [00:17:00] finding more people that are not people I've known for a long time that I can comfortably do that with. Does that make sense?

Jessica: It makes perfect sense. So let's just, just throw it right back at you for a minute.

What happens when you have a show? What do you do? Uh, do you meet people?

Ingrid Fraser: Yeah. Yeah. I meet people. I tend to talk at them until they leave. I was speaking to a gallery owner, um, this summer next door to where we were doing our pop up shop. And he was very sweet and kept coming over and kind of seeing how we were doing, compare, you know, comparing the people that were coming in because he obviously runs a gallery next to where this pop up shop was. We had a conversation about the, the market at the moment and how people are making a sale.

And he described people from the North East of Scotland in the way that they buy compared people in, in maybe other places like Glasgow. Um, and he'd said basically [00:18:00] that we're very good at when we think there's a sale, stepping back and giving people lots of room and actually that's the moment you should kind of step in.

And I think that sums me up very well is that if I think somebody's actually interested in my work or I feel it's businessy, I kind of panic and will either spew lots of words at them. Or, um, just retreat altogether and, and not make that connection and make that sale. Whereas, if I'm sitting with somebody in a completely different situation, and I happen to get talking about landscape, or I get talking about one of the things that I have been painting or researching, and I will talk to them about that for forever, and then they tend to be the people that will come in and buy a painting. But meeting somebody at a show or an opening, and It doesn't always end well.

Jessica: So the issue, if I could rephrase how you say it, is yes, you are meeting people, [00:19:00] but you get nervous and start trying to sell. And so you, and I haven't experienced you in this situation, so I don't know that this is true, but I'm just using your words here. And you scare them off and then they run away and never come back and run for the hills.

You're meeting people, but there's nothing after that.

Ingrid Fraser: Or even if I meet people and going, rather than going, would you like to hear more about my work? Can I connect with you and let you know about future stuff? I just, yeah, failed to do that entirely. And they walk away and go, I think I never asked them for an email address, or I never gave them a card with my details on them.

And I just, yeah.

[00:19:44] Put the focus on the customer instead of on your artwork.

Jessica: Can I give you a different opening line? Hi. How are you? Thanks for coming. How are you liking the show? If you can get in the mindset where you put the focus onto them instead [00:20:00] of the artwork, it will make them feel more comfortable, more welcome. It will make them feel like you are more warm towards them.

Ingrid Fraser: Yeah.

Jessica: They will open up. They will start talking. You will reply. They will ask you questions. It becomes a conversation instead of a TED Talk. I mean, that's like such a minor little switch that you can make, but I feel like it can change that whole trajectory of I know how to have a show, but I don't know how to sell to anyone at the show except for the people that already know and like me and I'm already comfortable with.

From that place, let's say we started the conversation that way. It's a whole heck of a lot easier at the end of that conversation to say, you are so lovely. I would love to stay in touch. I'm on Instagram, I have an email list, do you have any interest in finding a place where we can connect so that I don't lose you?[00:21:00]

I feel like the more honest you are, the more people respond in a normally positive fashion. Sometimes people are like, mm, this person isn't for me and that's fine.

Ingrid Fraser: They're not people that are going to buy the painting anyway.

Jessica: They are not. But the ones who are like, oh yeah, I really respect that. Look how open and vulnerable she is, are the ones who are going to want to stick around.

All of, I can say, hmm, I don't have a whole lot of artwork down here because we just built this basement a year ago. The artwork that I do have in here, I know all of the artists. And that's not the sole reason I bought it, because if I bought from every artist I knew, I would have to open a museum. But if I connect with the person, if I like their style, and especially if they [00:22:00] are painting, I can connect with what they have to say about it or what the subject matter is, that's like a perfect triangle of this is a person who will buy from me at some point, eventually, when the right piece comes along.

Ingrid Fraser: I think that's very true. I think when I think of the people that have bought work from me, there are people that, you know, have been to shows because they've known me or have had a connection and have come to shows for for year after year after year to the point where I thought they've come, they're coming because they, they want to support me, but they're not interested in buying my work and that's fine.

And then eight years down the line they come to a show and they buy something and you're like, where did that come from? But it was just that that was the right painting for them at the right time that they connected to it too. And I, yeah, I think that's something that building on finding more people that want to look at what I'm doing and not scaring them away is the big.[00:23:00]

Jessica: So I think of marketing in terms of getting exposure, visibility, getting in front of new people, having people see in your art, nurturing. And when you think about it like this, it feels like, oh, I don't know how to do that. But you do, because you just described it to me. Getting your artwork in front of more people.

Nurturing. Building relationships. Talking to them occasionally. Saying what's up. Inviting them to your show. Whatever that is. Content can also be a part of that. Like if they are in your content orbit, whether it's a newsletter, whether it's a social media account, whatever it is, they get to know you more, even when you are not having those conversations and then having things for sale, telling people that they're for sale, that is marketing in a box.

Ingrid Fraser: I think that, yeah, we've kind of come full circle. I think that you've got down to the two things that I [00:24:00] need to fix or making time to make the work and the more new work I have, the more I want to talk to people about that work and the more I want to show people that work because I have something new that I'm excited about and yeah, actually building on the people that I meet and making sure I make those connections work for me.

Yes. Make more work, show it to people, and then don't run away scared when they're in front of that work and actually talk to them. Or get them to talk to me rather than me talking to them.

[00:24:33] Prioritize where your time should be spent.

Jessica: Yeah. Let's think about it like that…get them to talk to me. Just by simply saying, how are you? What do you think? People love to give their opinions. They love to talk about themselves. Well, some people love to talk about themselves. But if you throw the ball in their court, 9 out of 10 times they're going to respond to that. So let's just, I mean, we're oversimplifying this a little bit, but let's just [00:25:00] cross off talk to them because we just problem solved that.

Making work and showing my work. So those are your two time priorities. I mean, when it comes down to it, it sounds really stupid simple, but simple is good. So how are we going to schedule your time so that you are making and showing work?

Back to the very beginning of this conversation. You told me that your tendency is all or nothing.

Ingrid Fraser: Yes.

Jessica: Has there ever been a middle? Or like, do we want to try to find a middle? Or do we really want to work with?

Ingrid Fraser: I think I have to find a middle. I have recently saw there is a new funding thing in Scotland that was specifically aimed at mid career artists [00:26:00] that needed funding to dedicate six months, uh, purely and simply to creating work.

Um, whether that was for a sabbatical from a job or for childcare costs. And I sat down and I looked at it and I thought, that sounds like it fits me perfectly. But I thought, that's actually not what I want. If somebody turned around tomorrow and said, I can take your childcare responsibilities from you.

I can take your household responsibilities from you. You can just go and paint for six months. I don't want to do that because I have a family and I have a life that is outside of my art. And I want my art to be a balanced part of that. I don't want something that's just going to magically fix it for six months but then breaks other things.

I want to find a balance where I can have my successful art business that is a valid and contributing part of my life as a whole that then means I can raise my children and be [00:27:00] a primary caregiver to them and be a supporting part of my relationship in more ways than feeding everybody. And I'm taking that away to go and do my art where my art is actually contributing to that and there's a balance.

I want to find a balance rather than to do the all or nothing.

Jessica: You just said this beautiful thing. I want both. I want one to contribute to the other and I want both to fill up my life and. Looked like you were getting little tears in your eyes, and so was I. So how do we make this work? Tell me about your family structure, meaning like you just said, 30 hours of child care.

Ingrid Fraser: My youngest is in child care. So my, my husband works shifts, so sometimes he does the drop off and sometimes I do the drop off. If I'm doing both drop offs in [00:28:00] a day, um, I have from 12, which is my time, five days a week. Um, and then I have afternoons are usually with my youngest, and then we've got classes and things. And, and then my son comes home at half past three.

So there is a bit flexibility and, and difference in, you know, every week is not the same. I've seen my husband work shifts, so some weeks if he's on an early shift, I, I, I have to do all the pickups and drop offs so my, my time is a bit shorter in the morning. But he might be home in the evenings, which is how I'd managed to do pop ups and things before I had any childcare. Before my youngest was in nursery and I had her full time, I've still made six or seven paintings in the last year and done two pop ups because I have, you know, a little bit of family support, but it is kind of ad hoc. So maybe, maybe two weeks out of every six, I will have from four till six at night where I can, [00:29:00] or in the summertime when I have the kids have gone to bed, I'll work from eight till 10, but it's sort of sporadic.

So the structured part is I now have mornings free, and it is either from, either from nine till half 12 or from 10 till half 12 my time. But for the last six years, the only creative time I've had has been once the children are asleep. I have always used mornings to do, walk the dog, do the dishes, do the housework.

Um, so I'm trying to flip that structure on its head and break those routines and go, well, the housework can sit for five hours, and I can do that while the children are here.

Jessica: Right.

Ingrid Fraser: And find that balance between spending time with them and having to do that stuff as part of the family, rather than going, I've got three hours and there's nobody in the house, I can blitz this and putting that time creatively first.[00:30:00]

I think the other thing. I mean,

Jessica: I think you know the answer.

Ingrid Fraser: Yeah. Yes. The other big thing to that is actually finding a space to work in. I think, you know, say we moved when I was pregnant with my oldest. Um, So I have a space, which I term my, my garden studio, because it, at the moment, it is not very usable in the wintertime. And it's also my store, so if I've done quite a lot of paintings, if I'm working towards something, or if I need to do any framing, preparation for presentation, it has to be. I think that, yeah, that's a big drain on, on the time I do have any, any, if I say, right, I'm going to spend the next two weeks, anytime there's nobody here, I'm going to paint.

I spent the first 40 minutes clearing a space to work in, and then the last bit go and clear everything away and make it child friendly again. So having a space, making a space that is, or creating work that doesn't necessarily need so much put up and set down. Whether that is setting the oil paints to [00:31:00] one side and going, I'm just going to draw for the next four months, that seems to be the other element of structure I have to work out.

Jessica: Right. So if I, I can't think of a better phrase than this. I don't want to say this phrase, but if I put a gun to your head and I said, you must figure out a space where you can leave your supplies permanently set up, even if it's small and do it now or else. What would you do?

Ingrid Fraser: I would either put a lock on the spare room, or I would try and find the money to put a proper door on my garden studio so that I can use it in the wintertime.

Um, which is my big problem at the moment. It is just in the winter when it's too wet and cold if I work in there, which I did last year 'cause I had a commission to finish and I worked on it when there was a foot and a half snow outside, and the result was the majority of the paintings that were in there then started to go moldy.

[00:32:00] Either carving out space in the house and working on drawings would be probably a major thing. Um, and making the space that I have usable in the winter or insisting that space in the house has to be mine and having to rejig things quite a bit to do that.

Jessica: If it is a matter of I have to start prioritizing myself to some degree. I really want to create momentum here.

I have some time, not a ton, but I have some time that I can actually do it and I'm ready, you have to have space.

Ingrid Fraser: Yeah.

Jessica: So which one is it going to be?

Ingrid Fraser: For the outside one. So I need to sell some paintings to be able to make it work.

Okay.

Jessica: How are we going to sell some paintings?

Ingrid Fraser: I don't know. I should.

Jessica: What kind of...

talk money to me. How much does a door cost? You said two paintings, but...

Ingrid Fraser: Well, yeah, I don't know how much a door costs, but I'm assuming I could probably [00:33:00] get a door and... and, yeah, probably sort that space so that it is more usable with a couple thousand pounds.

Jessica: Okay, well, that's one option. A couple thousand pounds for a door.

I'm assuming you're adding some other stuff in there.

Ingrid Fraser: It just has a wooden door that opens and shuts, so I'll have to make a frame. I would have to get somebody to come and put a frame on it and put a door on it, which would then also put light in because there isn't a window at the moment. It's a space that I paint in, um, with thermals with the door open in the wintertime, or I'd use it as a store and take things out and paint outside from it, if that makes sense.

Jessica: Yeah, in the summer.

Ingrid Fraser: But it is a space and it is mine. Um, and it is just there. So it's somewhere that when there is nobody here, I can make myself a cup of tea and walk out and in five minutes I'm there. Nobody else goes into it. It's mine.

[00:33:57] Figure out how to start implementing your plan today.

Jessica: I'm going to encourage you to, [00:34:00] until you sell two paintings, can we figure out a way, I mean, great, go sell two paintings tomorrow, but until we get there, we have things here, like, I assume you have similar things.

I don't know if they're the same. But like Facebook marketplace where people put all their junk on there. You can find an old door or the Habitat For Humanity. It's called The Restore where they take old stuff. Actually, the one here is fairly expensive, but when they take old stuff and it's supposed to be quite a bit cheaper than buying it new. Like thinking outside the box a little bit until you can do the solution properly, because I don't want to wait until you have a show, and then you sell a painting. And then you sell another painting, and then it's wintertime, and then you gotta find a contractor. And they won't come, cause there's snow, and blah blah blah blah blah blah. So, I know I'm really, again, oversimplifying this, but I'm just encouraging you, let's [00:35:00] start thinking outside the box, how can we make this a reality today?

Thing two, so you said it's about the time, and it's about having the space. We didn't solve the space, but we made progress on the space. The time, I wrote this down and I think I wrote it down wrong, but let's assume you only have 1030 to 12 because that is what I'm hearing is the minimum amount of time that you are going to have.

Ingrid Fraser: Yeah

Jessica: And sometimes that expands based on has been based on pickup.

So we've got one and a half hours, five days a week.

Ingrid Fraser: Well, if I'm doing pickup, it's ten ten to half twelve I have when I'm doing pickup. So that's two and a half hours, five days a week.

Jessica: Oh, okay. Two and a half hours, five days a week is twelve and a half hours. That's quite a bit of time. I know that the creative practice is funny, [00:36:00] and sometimes you're like, Okay, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go draw now.

And you go and you sit there and you stare at something until it's time to go. I get that. But also, what if we just made a rule that for that two and a half hours, you have to sit in your garden shed. You have to leave your house. You can take your tea. You can go back and get one more tea or two more teas, but you're not allowed back in the house until your buzzer goes off that says, Hey, kids are coming home or it's time to pick them up.

Ingrid Fraser: Yeah.

Jessica: You do that three days in a row and you just sit there. Eventually you're going to get your butt in gear and you're going to start working.

Ingrid Fraser: Yeah, if I'm in the space, it's quite, yeah, cause I've given myself that time. By the time I've managed to do everything else in the list that's always come before that by the time I've got into that space, I'm usually, that, that is my time. And I'm doing [00:37:00] something with it.

Jessica: Right.

So I'm not saying anything other than that two and a half hours, the rule is you go to the garden shed. Because if I give you too many rules, I have a feeling that you're the type of person who will, like, maybe rebel against them a little bit?

Ingrid Fraser: Yeah, possibly. Maybe. I have been, I have been described as stubborn in my time.

Jessica: Ha ha ha! But that will force yourself to come up with, okay, what do I want to work on today? And maybe it's framing, and maybe it's painting, and maybe it's applying for that grant.

Ingrid Fraser: Creating opportunities and marketing that sitting with my phone rather than actually creating within that time, rather than putting that somewhere else.

Jessica: You can do it a couple of different ways. You can say, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday are this, and Thursday, Friday are [00:38:00] this. Or you can say, One of my favorite things to say to myself in the morning is what do I feel like working on? And at the beginning of the week, I kind of said, these are the, the things I'd like to do.

Then I have that where I can see it and I can do anything on those lists. And then I just get to work within those, but I'm being purposeful about it because I've set here's the things, but now what do I want to do on these things?

Another way that I work is I have three things that I need to accomplish every day, but I decide those at the beginning of the day. That works for me as well. It just kind of depends what, where I'm at. You know, bouncing between structures that work for me. But being purposeful about it. So, making work, showing work. Making work, showing work.

Ingrid Fraser: Taking lots of notes.

Jessica: Oh good, because I feel like I'm not actually saying [00:39:00] anything. I'm just saying the same thing over and over.

Okay. So I feel like we should wrap up. Okay. What are your takeaways?

Ingrid Fraser: I need to prioritize actually creating, creating a space and time to make work and the more work I make, the more I will want to go out and find people to show it to. When I do have work in front of people that I should let them talk to me and make connections that way, rather than getting nervous and talking at them and then forgetting to make that connection work for me.

Jessica: But also open the conversation. Don't just sit there and wait.

Ingrid Fraser: Yeah.

Jessica: Anything else for you?

Ingrid Fraser: Deciding that I need to use that as a studio this winter. I know we can find a door and I can find somebody that can fix that. Um,

Jessica: [00:40:00] Priority one, make the space usable by next Wednesday. Today's Wednesday. You have seven days.

That means organizing it, cleaning it up. Like doesn't Pinterest worthy. Just has to be usable. Priority two is 10 to 12:30, whatever it is, you sit in that garden shed.

Ingrid Fraser: Use the time, use the space and use the time.

Jessica: And if you're like, man, I really want to paint great paint. If you're like, Oh, I don't want to paint scroll for shows you could be a part of. Like, make work, show, work, make work, show, or just repeat that to yourself over and over.

Okay. I am staring at this gorgeous tree painting behind you. If people wanna see your work, where do they go? Or not even necessarily see your work, if they want to join your email list or talk to you, where do you want people to go? Let's [00:41:00] put it that way.

Ingrid Fraser: If people want to go and see the one I have that is available for sale and join my email list, I have a website called Ingrid A Fraser dot store.

Jessica: Ingrid, I N G R I D A F R A S E R dot store. Did I get it right? Yes.

Ingrid Fraser: And I am on Instagram as Ingrid A. Fraser as well.

Jessica: Perfect. Got it. Thank you, Ingrid.

This was lovely.

Ingrid Fraser: Thank you, Jessica. It's been really good. It's been really, really good. Thank you very much.

Jessica: You are so welcome. And can I segue that because I was just talking to my podcast manager, and I think we just want to make this a interviewee only show for the foreseeable future because I just like it so much better.

So, even if you're nervous, Ingrid was nervous [00:42:00] and she did it anyway. I'm calling you out. Go ahead and apply. Come talk to me. It'll be fun. I promise I won't give you a hard time. Alright, Ingrid, thank you again.

Ingrid Fraser: Thank you very much, Jessica. It's been brilliant.

Jessica: Bye bye.