“How can I manage my energy levels and be more consistent with my time?” – Abby Anderbard

Jessica Craddock: Welcome back to Intuitive Art Sales. I'm here with Abby Anderbard and her work is a mirror of herself where she's at in her life. Currently, that's illustrated through flora and fauna, such as ravens, and also reflective elements, such as mirrors.

She's just starting to understand where she's at so that she can decide what she wants to do next. She described it as "I'm at the beginning stages of creating consistency and getting a handle on my time and where my energy gaps are". Her natural mode as a human being is to go, go, go, and then crash for that same amount of time that she was go, go going, and she's really wanting to figure out how to start remedying that so she can do the things that she loves every day, as opposed to the first two weeks of the month.

Hi, Abby.

Abby Anderbard: Hi.

Jessica Craddock: So, Abby, where do we start?

You had said when I asked where you were, "My energy is just not behaving the way that I want it to." And I briefly said, well, maybe that's just your natural energy cycle and we should learn to work with it instead of against it. And you said, but I want to do the things I love every day. So why don't we just explore that a little bit and see what happens? Does that sound good? 

Abby Anderbard: That sounds good. I think that at least for right now that is my current energy cycle. So it can be maybe true and untrue in the end. This is where I'm at right now. And maybe later I will be able to, like I was saying earlier, like riding a bicycle, I pedal my left foot, go for a little bit and be, you know, extroverted. And then stop and rest and be introverted and take in energy for myself so that then I can go exert energy out, interact with people and then rest again.

Right now, it's just like, go, go, go, go.

Jessica Craddock: But then stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.

Abby Anderbard: Yes, exactly. The balance of the universe.

Jessica Craddock: Well, yes. Two sides of the coin. I've been saying that a lot lately, and every time I do, I think of you. So, why do you think that is your pattern?

Abby Anderbard: I think it's always been my pattern. And it's always caused me problems, I think the same problems for like my whole life. I've had sleep issues, like my whole life, and it's usually because I would just want to keep going, keep doing, keep exerting, and then my circadian rhythm gets off because my clock, I push it, I try to get too much out of the day.

And then I need to sleep and it carries over. The clock just keeps moving and I can't keep track of time. I can't do well with appointments and stuff like that because I'm not controlling myself and going, that's enough, like, for now, enough, and then rest. And then I can, you know, go, go again through the cycle.

It's just like, I'm just starting to see this. Like I'm 34 now and I'm just really starting to see this, and it's crazy that it's just gone on so long that I didn't really realize the way that I'm unbalanced. That's where it is, and it's affecting everything.

Jessica Craddock: Do you think, you mentioned sleep being part of almost the cause and the effects, the reason why you go, go, go, you don't sleep, but then you haven't slept. So then everything's off, right?

Abby Anderbard: I need to sleep. Because you crashed then.

Jessica Craddock: Right. So do you think it's as simple as if I had a non movable sleep schedule? Would that solve everything or is it more than that?

Abby Anderbard: I've tried this before, like in therapy and doctors and stuff. And it seems to be that I have a really hard time controlling it to where I'm like, I, I want to keep going. And it's, ah, what did they say in the ADHD book, Driven To Distraction. It was something like you are a race car with really bad breaks.

It's like that. And it's like, when you step and you put your foot on the pedal, you go 200 miles an hour and it's very hard to put on the brakes. It's about like learning to say, like, I'm going to be able to go again later, so I can stop now and say enough now. But I've never thought about it that way before.

Jessica Craddock: When you said that, I got really sad. I was like, but I want to keep going like I'm not done yet.

Abby Anderbard: Like having a dopamine deficiency says, no, keep, keep going. Keep no, keep going. I don't have enough yet. No, keep going and then there's no stop. it's just a little harder. Like once I understand like what that means now for me I, I think now I can really start practicing enough just for now. It's enough for now. I will get more soon. I will get more soon because it's a lot of like what you've kind of taught me through. This is like the meetings we've had with each other since I started, where I had this fear of like, I have to do the whole, task for my art for the day. Like, I know I need to finish it because I won't come back to it. That's not true is what we've discovered. And like, it's like, just go for a piece of time and then st op for a piece of time. And then it will like cycle back around and I just could not see it before.

So I felt like there, it's not gonna start up again. That makes me wanna cry, actually. Like, it's not gonna start again. I have to finish, like I have to keep going because I, if I stop, it's not gonna start again. But that's not true. Like everything is like a cycle, and it does. So I feel like if I can practice this, In my business and I can practice it in my sleep. I can practice it in my interactions with people. I can practice it to everywhere. Like I think it'll build this pathway in my brain. I think it's the same pathway. So I'm kind of excited now that I see it.

[00:07:35] Identify where your hangups are.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. So let's talk about it a little bit more tangibly. So what are, let's go with two, what are two things, examples of maybe things you want to do or that you have done that you felt like I can't stop because I won't start again.

Abby Anderbard: I get stuck painting a lot. That's a really easy one to envision. Just be sitting there going, no, I, maybe I need a little bit more. Maybe I need to milk this experience a little bit more. And then I'll just overwork a piece. I think that's a lot of what, when people get stuck overworking art could be a reason behind it. It definitely is for me. It's like, I don't want this to be over. I can't stop.

Jessica Craddock: Is it a fear of not starting again, or is it a fear of... I don't know if fear is the right word, but like a need to finish.

Abby Anderbard: It's like an 'I need to keep moving' kind of feeling.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. So painting is one example. What's another example?

Abby Anderbard: You could use overworking in a lot of senses here, I suppose, like in marketing as well. So like creating an Instagram story and then just milking that experience going, I'm really enjoying putting the music to this. Maybe I can add another thing to this. Maybe I can add another thing to this. It really didn't need all that.

I really didn't need to spend an hour and a half messing around with this. I had a really good time, but a little too much. Like I had a I had a time limit on this for a reason. The next thing is gonna be fun too, like, move on. No. My brain says no.

Jessica Craddock: No, that won't be fun. No, this is the only fun thing ever.

Abby Anderbard: Only fun.

Jessica Craddock: But also... I like that you are delving deep into things that are fun.

Abby Anderbard: That's true.

Jessica Craddock: Like, it's not all checkboxes here. Like, the creativity and the, the movement and the from start to finish and all of those things are your dopamine.

but I think that we should maybe reframe it as maybe a gift. Like so many people trudge through this stuff and are like, I have to, I, I need to be more consistent. I need to do this because someone said to, and what I hear you saying is I like this. I want to keep going.

Abby Anderbard: That's true.

Jessica Craddock: That's pretty cool.

Abby Anderbard: I like it, but I think I'm doing it in an unhealthy swing to where I'm taking too much because I'm afraid I'm not going to give it to myself again tomorrow.

Jessica Craddock: So you mentioned earlier, in my Consistent Income program that you had been practicing doing pieces of things as opposed to trying to do the whole thing.

Have you proven to yourself that you will start again and you will get it later? Or is that something that's still a concept that you're trying to grasp?

Abby Anderbard: It's there in reality now. It feels like I have a bit of a physical pattern laid down in my brain now. It feels like I have... like hope and trust that it will be there tomorrow. It's just that it's not, I'm not referring to that pattern everywhere else in my life when I know that actually I should be. And so it's still crops up in places and I'm like, Oh no, what's going on here. It's the same thing.

Jessica Craddock: Well, it's a lifelong habit in your words. It's something that you've done for your whole life and everywhere.

You've been with me for about two months now. So the amount of time is, let's say 60 days compared to 34 years. It's going to take time to rewire that. And there's, you know, the whole science behind 21 days of a habit and yada, yada. So like progress is being made.

Abby Anderbard: Yeah, I feel it.

Jessica Craddock: And I'm not trying to prove to you that progress is being made. You're telling me progress has been made, but you also came on this call and said, I am trying to get a handle on my time and where my energy gaps are and my natural mode is to go, go, go and then crash for the same amount of time. Is that you just regurgitating how you naturally behave, but you are starting to change those patterns? Or is it something crashing into your energy sphere that you're

Abby Anderbard: I'm seeing it now, I think is what it is. Like, I wasn't really tracking it before as the same thing, repeating over and over and over again. So it's like, it's still happening because I still kind of stuck at it. Cause I just started seeing it. Yeah. So it's like an awareness thing. Like it's still happening. I can't do like, I can do a little bit, like I'd have like a tiny little muscle to work against it right now. And I see it.

So it's, it's like, I think it's Neil Gaiman who says something like your, your taste as an artist is like way bigger than your skill when you first start out. and you're like, I want it this good. I can see what it can be like, but I can't do it yet. So I like need time and practice to just be like, no, and then stop myself and rest. And then I can start on exerting effort towards something, interact with others, whatever it is for my kind of like extrovert half and then next step to do introvert half.

But my natural mode has been for so long to just be like out, out, go out, . No, keep going out. No, keep putting out, keep doing that until you don't have anything left and then you crash for the same amount of time. And it's still happening that way because the pattern is everywhere in my life. And the fact that I can see it doesn't mean that I can fix it so quickly, which is embarrassing because I'm gone for so long from. you know, social media resting in that crash period when I know and have this vision of I'm going to get there. I'm going to be able to be more measured in my energy as I go along, but I'm not there yet.

And it does, it just does feel kind of embarrassing to lack the skill in the area that you will have.

[00:14:19] No one is critiquing your actions the way you are.

Jessica Craddock: First of all, I can't make you not feel embarrassed, but I would like to express for myself and most likely anyone who's listening. No one is like, ooh, she doesn't know how to manage her energy correctly. Like nobody's doing that.

Abby Anderbard: Right. And nobody's paying attention, really, anyway.

Jessica Craddock: Nobody's listening anyway.

Abby Anderbard: Like, does anybody really know that? I haven't been on my Instagram in like a week and a half, two weeks. No.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. So let's shoot into the future for a minute because you said I keep seeing all these patterns showing up in all these different ways. So if you were to have a perfect week.

Let's go with a whole week because day doesn't seem like it's going to do it. And you were starting and stopping and you were going out and staying in and resting and exerting and being perfectly balanced in the way that Abby would love to be balanced. What does that look like? Describe a perfect week for me.

Abby Anderbard: If it was perfect,

Jessica Craddock: I mean, nothing's perfect, but this is, this is imagination. So it's perfect.

Abby Anderbard: Right. Oh, but if it was, it would be, gosh, I'm not going to get there. It's not possible, but if it were, it would be every single thought and interaction that I had would be measured like that. So it would be like, I have a call with Jessica.

This is an extroverted thing. Cool. I'm going to go on and talk with Jessica and we're going to have an interacting sentence. Where we're interacting with each other. And then right after that, it's like, now I breathe and stop talking and listen and digest what you're saying and think of what I actually want to say. And then come back outwards with you. Like, even in a conversation like this, it's ideal would be like that. And then to train myself to, okay, I just did an external thing, stop now do an internal thing where I'm like a good listener instead of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like 24, seven. A little bit of that first, cause that's also me, and then breathe and then let there be a second silence.

Maybe the other person has something to say, take that in and then digest it and then next I can interact and talk it out with you again. And it would be like that throughout the entire day.

Jessica Craddock: Hour on hour off.

Abby Anderbard: Every like micro interaction would be the perfection I would see. So like even in a conversation, on, and then personally off in the conversation, and then on, like sentence by sentence, thought by thought, would be the perfect thing. That is definitely, like, level a thousand, and I'm at level two. Level two! Two weeks on, two weeks off, that's where I'm at. So, like, if we can get it down by, like, a shave a couple days off over the next month or two, okay, that's fine.

Jessica Craddock: Yes.

Abby Anderbard: I don't know what a rational, like, perfect week would be for me. Something more measured and, oh gosh, less... insanely perfect would probably be like, yeah, okay. I've got an event where I can be on, and then I'm gonna go be in my studio and nap on the sofa and there for the same amount of time afterwards.

So like an hour call, an hour decompression and nap. Like, and then, okay, after that we're gonna exert some energy, and we're going to do a paint thing for, for like two hours. And then after that it's like, okay, we're going back to the sofa and we're looking at pictures on Pinterest of plants and cats and stuff like that. And then, you know, and then we're going to, okay, we're going to go home and we're going to do chores for an hour. Okay. And then after that sofa time with husband. I am so very physically like moving when I'm exerting It's just very important for me to physically stop. Even we don't think about that. If you're go, go going with your body's doing it too.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. So when you're saying on that includes everything from painting to doing chores, to talking to people, to being at an event. I think those were all the things you said, so like exerting everything, not just necessarily talking to people, but anything where you are completing or executing something is in on phase.

And then the couch, whatever version of couch, is the off phase.

Abby Anderbard: Yeah. So conserving energy or taking energy in time versus out time. Yeah.

[00:20:48] Take baby steps to retrain your energy levels.

Jessica Craddock: And does that need to be on, off, on, off, on, off throughout the day or can it be on four hours, off four hours?

Abby Anderbard: not sure yet. But. I know I don't like the two weeks on and then two weeks off. It'd be nice if I could get it down to four on and then four off. Gosh, I don't know. I don't know.

Jessica Craddock: But right now, you said I'm at level two, I want to be at level a thousand. So what does level three look like?

Abby Anderbard: Level three would look like planning in one of the... taking in all times after one outward event. It would be like just scheduling like a, a complimentary time slot, space slot, since I'm bad at managing time so far. Space slot in this space we'll do, like painting for two hours and then we will do in this other space, two hours of rest, and that's what I think level three would be, just doing that once.

Jessica Craddock: That sounds like level 500.

Abby Anderbard: It does?

Jessica Craddock: A thousand was five minutes on, five minutes off, an hour on, an hour off, like really measured throughout the day. And so level three, compared to level two, compared to level a thousand, I think level three where you just start at level 500.

Abby Anderbard: Oh, but that would be like consistently being able to do that. I think just trying it once and then screwing up for like weeks after that is fine. Yes.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. Okay, great. Let's get to level three. What's your next outward thing? Well, actually we're on a podcast episode recording right now. This is your on thing?

Level three is for an hour after this you get couch time. Can you do that?

Abby Anderbard: Of course. Yeah, I can do that. I've been doing it for like a week and a half. It's my momentum right now.

Jessica Craddock: Well, we already hit level three. What's level five.

Abby Anderbard: Well, it would probably be like, since I've been off starting a work day backup, you know, where I'm actually using my planner and going to my studio. And it would be doing one thing that's exerting and then one thing that's not.

Jessica Craddock: Great. Yeah. In your planner, you've got four things that you can do, and you've got, well, three things, and you've got an energetic refill that you can do in between. And you've got a, for me, that can be one of your bigger breaks. So what you're describing to me is using your planner is level 10.

Abby Anderbard: Yeah. With this.

Jessica Craddock: So today, what are the out things you've done today.

Abby Anderbard: I met with a friend and went on a walk. Out is like exerting energy for me or like, it's more energy to go be out and do something with someone. And then in would be like alone time and not being busy and making myself move and complete a task of any form. So even making a pot of soup is like, wow, I did a thing, even though I really love it and I'm going to be able to sit down on the couch and eat it later.

It's like. Did you really rest, like, did you really just sit there and let your husband feed you grapes, because that's what you need. Like, that's what I mean because I'm just like task to task to enjoyable task to task to task. And it's ridiculous.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. So we're calling your energetic refill for the week 'couch'. You just write that down every day. Couch.You don't have to think about anything or how you're going to do it or what you're going to do. It's just couch.

Abby Anderbard: I am so bad at that. I'll just sit there and be like, I need to do stuff. But I need to practice.

Jessica Craddock: It's like meditating.

Abby Anderbard: Yeah,

Jessica Craddock: Meditating on the couch, but not even meditating. It's just like the same idea. So, let's, let's make this a level 10, not a level 50. And it's a 15 minute couch time because you just said, I'm not good at that. And I'm going to sit there and I'm going to try to do something else. 15 minutes. of non doing every time we exert.

Abby Anderbard: Because that's how it is. Like I'm, it's like 15 minutes exerting. I need 15 minutes to rest. It's, it seems like it's, if I don't make it even, it will build up and then it will tidal wave in the same amount of time.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah. But we're working towards even, but if I said, now you have to go sit on the couch for one hour and do nothing, I'm not sure you would do it.

Abby Anderbard: That's true.

Jessica Craddock: So we got to build up.

Abby Anderbard: Yeah. That's a good idea.

Jessica Craddock: Instead of starting at level a thousand, we're starting at level 10.

Abby Anderbard: I still feel like it is going to build up into a burnout after, you know, weeks of this, but there's not much I can do about that. You're right. I'm not going to sit there for an hour. I'm going to get antsy. So I mean, what else can I do? This is a good idea.

Jessica Craddock: Level 20 could be on Fridays I'm not allowed to schedule a damn thing. Excuse the language. So level 20 we're gonna have about one week 15 minute energetic refill couch Next week, we add in Friday, no scheduling, fun or otherwise. That doesn't mean you can't do fun or otherwise, but we're not planning or saying I need to, or I should, or any of that. We're trying to get back that time that we used throughout the week to just be.

Abby Anderbard: Yeah, I think a good... thing to throw in there would be to have a no phone day. I don't know if I can, but I usually will start trying to do things with my phone, if I have it.

Jessica Craddock: Give it to your husband. Say hubby, I love you. Take this to work with you and don't give it back until 8 p. m.

Abby Anderbard: All my brain says to me about that is the things I can do with the time. Like, I could, I could clean the whole house. No, stop. I, so the intention would be to like, try to do the opposite of tasks. What is that? But I need to learn this balance because that's where the burnout's coming from. 

Jessica Craddock: What do you do when you're burnt out?

Abby Anderbard: I sleep as much as I need to, but the cycle is still so far off. I usually ghost people, unfortunately.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah.

Abby Anderbard: And I don't check any comments because I don't have the energy to then like blast back out, at them. So I'm like, oh, crap. And then they build up during that time. But all of the communication builds up during that time because I've been exerting, exerting, communicating out the whole time, and then crash.

Jessica Craddock: Then they're replying back.

Abby Anderbard: I can't, I don't have any energy left.

Jessica Craddock: I had like 20 different messages from people on my Instagram DMs today from up to like six days ago. And I was like, I could not bring myself to go in and even look at them. So today I finally got that back and I was like, Oh, no big deal. I went through all of them easy peasy, but I'll probably have that for a couple of days and then I'll be like,

Abby Anderbard: Right.

Jessica Craddock: Give me, give me a couple of days and I'll get back to you.

Abby Anderbard: Yeah. And it's like, you're on for a little bit and then you're off for a little bit because it's like, well, you went and then you spent it all. And then, you know, you can kind of try to fill the bucket that now is full of holes with like some, some of your energy. But then it's like, okay, there's not going to be any there, and then you're not going to be able to do that for a couple more days to a week or whatever that is. That's what it's like for me.

It's like, I don't rest. My bucket's full of holes, and then like the resting will repair the holes so I can hold the energy that I'm taking in for myself. But if I don't rest, I'm full of holes. That's what it feels like for energy.

Jessica Craddock: So back to the question, what are you doing when you are not replying, not sleeping.

Abby Anderbard: I worked on like my marriage, like our relationship. We had some things that we were talking about. So we had like lots of conversations this week and that was really good, but it did take a lot of energy. Just working on like our dynamics and stuff. And it's been really nice, but it's also it takes a lot of energy when you have something that you're going through, you know, you guys just need to chat and work through it.

A lot of it was just like that, and then being tired, and then logistics of life. I did a lot of like eating meals and resting, and I did watch a couple of shows, so I did some intake, which was nice. I read a book. I read Do Less this last week that you recommend. And it was nice. And I'm listening to some podcasts as well like relationship based podcasts and, and that's been kind of helping through our week. It's been really nice.

Jessica Craddock: So learning.

Abby Anderbard: Yeah, some learning but about like things that have to do. I feel like that is effort actually some some taking in is also effort if you're using it to then do something later so that I can then puzzle in my head over it like there's some things that you can take in for just your pleasure or enjoyment. And then there's some things that you take in so that you can busy, busy, busy in your head with it, right?

And the pleasurable things that I did, now I remember, I went on a walk by myself to the park, and I took a bunch of seeds from plants, and I put them in my pocket. I like these plants. And it makes me want to go look for flowers even more just to be like, they don't serve any purpose, and they make me happy. So shut up brain. That's more of what I did when it made me actually. feel like I was taking care of myself, I was like an important person who wanted to experience something nice while I'm here.

That's more of what I need to do on those days. And I need to go do it, a lot of the time, alone. Because otherwise I will be like, Do you need something? Do you need something? Or, do you need something in the future? Or, you... Like, I need to do less of the tasks, mental or real, and more of the collecting seeds stuff.

Jessica Craddock: Let's summarize. . Things that refill your energy include I'm calling them not, I don't agree with this, but non purposeful seeds, learning, walks alone. I'm gonna say cooking. Is cooking a thing?

Abby Anderbard: Yeah. It is some effort, but it makes me happy so, because later I'll get to enjoy it. Yeah. That's some of that. I like soup especially. Very cozy things.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. Soup. Specifically. Couch. No phone. No conversation. Okay, so this is what Friday the we're in October as of this date of recording but it will be after this later. But October 27th, that is your day. Okay, level 10 was 15 minutes after exerting, couch. For one week. We're practicing it.

Abby Anderbard: As my energetic refills. Okay.

Jessica Craddock: Yep.

Abby Anderbard: Level 20. We're skipping 10 levels because we're doing level 10 for a week

Jessica Craddock: Level 20 is Friday off with any of the aforementioned non-activities.

Abby Anderbard: Yeah. Okay. Level 10 is introducing this energetic refill. And then after that, jumping to level 20 and going into a no phone leisure Friday.

[00:33:02] Manage your energy to prevent burnout.

Jessica Craddock: It feels like, what are these broads even talking about but if you can't learn to manage your energy, how are you going to get things done without burning out and crashing and quitting? So this really is a bigger conversation around reaching your goals through the baby steps. And baby steps for this conversation are learning to manage our energy with the baby steps. So the way that I like to break down the baby steps is to find what is that bigger goal? What does that look like? And then what's like a micro version of that that we can start to implement one and do it for a little bit, implement another one, but so small that you almost don't even notice that you're doing it. Maybe even level 20 is like level 50 because that's a big thing, no phone for a day, no activities. Like if you can do that, I will be so impressed.

Abby Anderbard: I have done it before. So I feel like it's not too far out of reach for me. I think I can do it is going to be a little hard. It's I'm not lying. This is gonna be a little hard. It is maybe more than level 20. But it's not it's not like I don't have some some practice at it and some good feelings from the practice with it. They're there. I mean the goal is to get to consistent income for myself because I've always had trouble with this. I am 34. I've heard Ricky Gervais, the comedian, actually say this in an interview where he was like, start earning regularly until I was in my mid thirties.

And I'm like, I feel the same. Like you have this realization, like you're not consistent. You're not consistent in your life. And you have to start figuring out how you want to be consistent. And it doesn't just happen all at once. And that's how I've always tried to do it before. It's like I show up and I'm like, okay, I'm going to be on forever now.

Jessica Craddock: This is how people have said that it works. And so I have to now be on, but it's like, you don't have the foundational pieces to be balanced yet.

Abby Anderbard: Yeah. If you don't have the balance of on, off, on, off, like, you're not going to get consistency in anything, which is why I don't have that consistency. If I go on, on, on, on, on, then off, off, off, off, off is the equal result.

Jessica Craddock: Right. Okay. So I feel like we solved a lot and nothing all at the same time.

Abby Anderbard: Right on. Couch though. Thanks for pointing out my love of sofa. I didn't really

Jessica Craddock: It was funny. So if level 50 on October 27 is not successful I don't want you to see that as a failure. I want you to come and say Jessica I won for two hours and then I failed miserably. Okay, so then let's take it back to level 20 and we'll say two hours of no phone, non purposeful soup-only types of things for the next Friday. Because we want to build up the belief and the muscle and the confidence that comes from taking these little steps so that you succeed so that you see you can do it.

So you can do it more and then it's easier and easier and easier, but you keep adding in harder and harder and harder. So you keep going forward.

Abby Anderbard: I want it.

Jessica Craddock: You're gonna, you are getting it. You are not, not getting it. Like you're already on that pathway. You've already been doing it.

Abby Anderbard: Yes.

Jessica Craddock: We're just progressing. ,

Abby Anderbard: I don't know if it's the speed or the level or whatever it is, but I couldn't see where the next little push would be. And I don't think I would have if we didn't talk about it. 

Jessica Craddock: It's all intertwined, which is why, when I get on the phone with someone for a podcast recording, the very first thing I asked them is not, where are you at in your art business? But I say, where are you at in your business and your art practice and your life? Because they are so interchangeable and so explicitly linked that you can't do one without the other. So sometimes the work that I do with people feels unrelated, but it is. So that's where we're at today.

Abby, where do people find you?

Abby Anderbard: Right now, my main platform is Instagram and my handle is a_little_familiar. I also have YouTube.

Jessica Craddock: Yes, and you have a little picture of a raven on there. And then do you know what your YouTube is?

Abby Anderbard: It's the same. Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: Perfect.

Okay. I'm also going to take just a quick second to say, come be on my podcast. You don't have to know what you want. You don't have to know how you want to get there. We might talk about couch time. We might talk about a strategy to sell a series. We might talk about your brand topics. Who knows what we're going to talk about, but I will help you find whatever we need to talk about. And we'll go there. So go in the description, find the link, apply. It'll be fun. Thanks, Abby. I appreciate you.

Abby Anderbard: Thanks Jessica. I'll see you around.

Jessica Craddock: All right. Bye, girl.

Abby Anderbard: Bye.