“How can I build enough trust to successfully expand my team?” – Chanelle Jefferson

Jessica Craddock: Welcome back to Intuitive Art Sales. I am here with the beautiful Chanelle who I randomly keep running across on the internet and bouncing into. And I was like, I have to talk to this person and learn more about her. And if you can see it, if you're not listening, you're watching, look at the artwork behind her. Look at it. It's gorgeous.

Chanelle Jefferson: Thank you.

Jessica Craddock: Do it. Okay. So, Chanelle, tell me a little bit about you. You're kind of, um, let's call it multifaceted, but it all comes back to one thing in your business where you're an artist. You also hold retreats. Tell me a little bit about all of that.

Chanelle Jefferson: Yeah, so I think taking it back to the beginning, as I grew up as a very curious child, I was an entrepreneur from the, I remember making my first a hundred dollars as a, as a kid, I would bring, make everyone bring their Christmas presents to my house. Pay me to wrap them. And I was very, I always had it in me that I wanted to work for myself, but I think as we grow up, oftentimes we shut our light off along the way.

 it takes time to bring back that light. And it hasn't been, I think it for the past two years have really been me embracing the light and going back to the things that I loved as a child. and finding all of the joy in that, but also finding ways to monetize it in, in the real world of being an adult.

And for many years, I worked jobs for other people. I was told I think, like most artists, that we can't make a living from art, that if I wanted to be an artist, I had to go to school and study to have two teachables so that I could then teach in a school and then do my art on the side. And that was how artists made a living.

For years, I also drug prints around to farmers markets in Nova Scotia because I was told that that was how artists make money in Nova Scotia, and it did not work for me at all. I'll be honest. I tried selling $20 prints. And I think up until two and a half years ago the most expensive piece of artwork that I ever had sold was like $150 for an original.

And it took a lot of leaps, which I'll speak about. We can talk about, um, leaps of faith, trust, finding myself again, in order to really discover myself and what my artwork does for the world, and the other things that I can bring to the table through my work.

Jessica Craddock: think it's so cool that you said when you were a kid, I wanted to be an entrepreneur because I say that too. And I feel like I am the only one saying that, I just don't run into other people who are, I want to be an entrepreneur. It's, I have to be an entrepreneur to sell my art. So, do you think the fact that that is something that you wanted has made you be able to take these leaps and bounds and really lean into? And I've, from what I can tell, you're doing pretty well with your art. You're selling at high prices. People are buying it. Do those two things, did that skillset help you or that desire?

Chanelle Jefferson: It was the drive and the curiosity that I've carried through me since a child. You have to be willing to show up over and over again. You here know so many times as an artist. And you're either all in, or it's probably not going to work. You have to be willing to show up and keep going. And I think that resiliency is something that I built as a child and just trying so many different things through my curiosity.

But for a long time, I worked jobs for other people, and I was fired from almost every single job I ever worked. It just, it never worked out. I'm not really a. big rule breaker, but it never seemed to, it just never seemed to work. And there were jobs that it was very painful to be fired from. And it was upsetting, but it was like the universe was leading me to no, you've got to figure this out first. This is what your path is. And you have to get back into that light that you had as a child. I carried everyone's beliefs around for so long about what it meant to be an artist and how it was supposed to look and all of the things.

Jessica Craddock: So how do you think, if you could say one thing was the biggest difference for you to be able to let go of those other people's beliefs and stories and really say, you know what, I don't, I don't care what they're saying. I'm all in and I'm going to do this. If someone else wanted to do that, what would you say to them?

Chanelle Jefferson: Be willing to take big leaps. I think oftentimes we expect or want different outcomes from the same actions that we're taking. But in order to have different outcomes, different results, we have to be willing to take radically different action. And ' that I think began the turning point of all of this for me was I experienced a really deep loss, but at the same time there was this, um, it was something that it was like an ad that popped up on Facebook.

It was a mentor. I was like, it was more money than I had ever made. I think the program was $24,000 over the course of a year. I think in my lifetime I had maybe made like $15,000 in a year. And I was like, I don't know why I'm drawn to this so much. What is coming up for me. And you know, my partner at the time was like, well, you could wait next year, wait until next year, sign up, save the money. And I think one of the things that helped me take the leap to invest in myself was it was scarier for me to stay in the place that I was then to fail trying. So I jumped in.

I had no idea how I honestly use the money that was in my bank account for bills for my first payment. And month after month, the money showed up for me, and I was able to pay for the program. But then also I made a hundred thousand dollars in my first year of like really committing to this. But before I had always kind of been in and out, you know, I was going to farmer's markets. I was doing this. I was never fully in; I was never invested in it either. So, invest in yourself, be willing to take huge, scary and unconventional leaps.

There are many people in your life who are going to be like, no, no, don't you dare do that. But. My advice would be to look at them and ask if they have the results that you want before you take advice from them. So that really started the big turning point of everything for me.

[00:07:43] When you go all in you find greater success.

Jessica Craddock: I see a lot of artists who, and I'm projecting my own story, past stories onto them, but who are doing things like I'm taking prints to farmer's markets. And I'm working really hard, and I'm trying to make money with my art. But they're not all in. They think they are, but they're not. How did you know you were all in?

Was it because you invested so heavily in yourself?

Chanelle Jefferson: Yeah, I think, I have nothing against farmers markets. It worked great for some people. That's amazing. If it works for you, that's perfect. But it wasn't working for me, and I had to be willing to sit with myself and be honest that what I was doing was not working. And when we actually look at that and see Do I have the results that I'm wanting or desiring?

And if the answer is no, there's a good chance we have to change what we're doing. If you see progression and you're growing, then of course, don't change things, focus on the things that you're doing great and make them bring them to the table even more. But when it's really not working, it's time to get honest with yourself.

But I think I was all in because I invested so heavily in myself. I'm the kind of person that's like, If I invest this in myself, you bet your ass I'm going to show up every day. I'm going to do the work. I'm going to show up. I'm going to be vulnerable. I'm going to take scary ass action, and I'm going to, I think a 1 percent rule is what I've really carried through in my work, is we don't have to change 100 percent in one day.

But if we're willing to show up and commit to 1 percent each day, that adds up to 365 percent at the end of the year. It's a lot! So, when we're willing to commit to that, it can make big change in our lives very quickly.

Jessica Craddock: I'm glad you said the thing about farmers markets can work because of course they can. But I was more speaking to I'm trying, but I'm also staying in my safe zone. And I'm not pushing myself to do things that might be bigger and a little scarier and those 1 percent changes over time. So, thank you for clarifying that.

Can I ask if it's okay with you? By showing up, by making these big changes over time, you went from $15,000 as your most to a hundred thousand. What did you do? How do I phrase this question? What is something you did that allowed you to increase your income significantly?

Chanelle Jefferson: Mm hmm. Well, I showed up fully in the program that I had committed to.

[00:10:38] Detaching yourself from the way you price your artwork can help you value it more.

Chanelle Jefferson: But also, I had detached myself from the value of my artwork. I think often times as artists we believe that pricing our work is also pricing ourselves. So, what, we're pricing what we value ourselves at, instead of what the work actually does for people, and then what the work is worth.

And, I used to think of myself poorly, and not fully believe in myself and my work, therefore, my work was priced at 30 or 165 because I tied it to my worth. But when I was able to separate artwork and myself, then I was able to do the work on myself and also objectively look at my artwork and see what it actually brought to the world.

And then price it from there and how, what that did for people. Then I priced it that way. And then gradually over time, my prices went from 400 or 165 to 400, which felt massive for me and then 1200 and now they're 15,000 and just kind of over time, taking the leaps to put my, and also develop my audience.

So get to know my audience and also put my artwork in the right spaces for the people who appreciate the work and value it that much as well.

Jessica Craddock: The biggest thing that I took away from what you just said was that I separated myself from my artwork. And that's so hard to do because the artwork is like from those deep down depths. It is you, and it isn't you. It's, I think of it like a, you have a baby, that baby came from you. It's got your DNA, but it's its own person. You can't control it anymore. It will do what it will do. He, she, whatever. I love that.

Okay. I'm sure that people are going to be curious. You keep referencing this program. So, let's just go ahead and call it out. Tell what, what is it? We don't have to like sales pitch it, but like, tell me what it is. So, people can go look it up if they're

Chanelle Jefferson: Yeah, so I worked with Jessica Saran. She's a beautiful artist. She now lives in Prague. She's a Canadian, but she moved to Prague, and she developed this program. I've now also worked for her in assisting her with her program or she has free events that she puts on. So, I've assisted her in supporting the people who move through her free events.

They're a big weeklong thing. They're really beautiful. So, I came through, I did her free event and at the end she offered her program, of course, and I did it. So, I participated with her two years in a row. I came back as alumni the second year. And then this year I chose to step back just because I wanted to expand with people.

I think one of the things that I've learned this year is being the most courageous. person in the room can be one of the most damaging things. And I really wanted to also move into rooms where there were people doing even greater things that I wanted to emulate. So, I highly, highly recommend go check out her work.

If you're new to the art world, if you're wanting to expand your sales and. And develop your work. Even before I worked with Jessica, I was working on, like, I was selling little prints of tourist locations in Nova Scotia. If you scroll to the bottom of my Instagram, they're still there and then eventually through working through her process called keep grass in the studio, I then developed work like this, and I always wanted to work on canvas, but.

Jessica Craddock: What a good name.

Chanelle Jefferson: Yeah, it's really great. I love her to death. I would highly recommend her to anyone.

[00:14:41] If you want different results, you must take different actions. [00:14:41]

Chanelle Jefferson: And then, this year, I kind of reached the point where I was in that comfortable space again that you talk about, and I was getting the same results.

So, my second year, I did a little over, I think I did around 110 thousand in sales. And I was like, you know, I'm really wanting that quantum leap that I had at the beginning. Why am I not receiving that? And I really had to sit with myself. And it came down to, Oh, I'm actually really comfortable in my situation. Everything is very comfy. I know what to predict. I know what's going on.

So, I stretched myself. I made a 50, 000 investment into working with a group of people who are making 500, 000 to a million dollars a year, not necessarily through artwork, but through business because I wanted to learn how they operate and how they show up. And I think when we put ourselves in the room, when we're willing to show up and put ourselves in those rooms, We don't necessarily have to copy those people, but our nervous system then calibrates to what they are moving through.

And we then began to bring in that same energy and just in, like, I've already made what I made last year in the first three months of my business this year. And I think it was just because I'm willing to show up that way.

Jessica Craddock: There's a saying, I'm sure you've heard it, but it's, you are the sum of the five people that you are around the most. You didn't even invest in a program to sell more art, which I think is really cool because one, we can take inspiration from other businesses and figure out how to innovate and do things differently in those spaces, but you invested based on who was going to be there, and who's going to grow you mentally and push you. And I'm all for that.

Chanelle Jefferson: Thank you.

Jessica Craddock: I like you.

Chanelle Jefferson: Thank you.

Jessica Craddock: Normally what happens on these is we talk about, well, how can I help you with your art? And this has not gone that way. And I'm totally good with that because I'm enjoying this very much, but you had mentioned before we started that you have learned how to have a team of people around you to support you in your personal life, but you're having a hard time bringing that into your business. And you're also in a place where you're growing leaps and bounds and you're probably going to hit some major ceilings if you don't find the way to bring some of those people in. Can we talk about that for a little bit?

Chanelle Jefferson: Yeah, I think it was very easy to notice the spaces that I needed help in my personal life because I'm very clear on the things that I don't necessarily like to do in my personal life. And the first thing, of course, was we'll have someone come clean the home. And then the second thing was, is we're getting so busy that we're forgetting to eat and we're not taking care of ourselves properly.

So, then it was okay. We'll bring someone in to cook our food and help support us that way. And now in my business, it's kind of like, can I get everything I need to get done in a day? I'm very good about burnout. I don't struggle with burnout because of the amount of self-care and space that I give myself. I'm someone with a very open calendar because I operate very intuitively.

And do have structure for the days that I'm in the studio. I show up, I have to get shit done, of course I have deadlines and all of that stuff. Especially now, I've been really leaning into the interior designer side. I've been working with designers all over the world on massive projects, and I'm kind of at the capacity where it would be really great to have a studio assistant to prep canvas and do all the things that just, my zone of genius, my energy doesn't need to be put there.

But then there's also this amount of vulnerability that comes in with having someone to answer emails. And I. Like I said, I sell artwork, and I sell experiences, and, there's this amount. There's this energy that is really important in my business and the way that I speak to people, the way that, just the energy that I work really, really hard on to carry.

So, when I bring someone into my team, I really want to make sure that the energy, energy is one of the most important things for me. And I want to make sure that it is, they have the same beliefs and values as well.

So, I always have had this, Relationship with bringing people into the business and on that very personal side even bringing in an accountant was Huge for me.

I have because I really needed help with it.

Jessica Craddock: You have to at that point.

Chanelle Jefferson: Yeah, I needed help. The first year I didn't. And then someone looked at it and they were like, you, what is this? And yeah, so there was. There was a lot of growing there. Um, and it's still something I work on. There are parts of my life where I'm very organized and on the ball.

And then there are other parts that just, like, they get very left behind and they're messy and finances. Like, being organized and finances is 1 of those things for me. But I think just the amount of vulnerability that's required to bring someone in and trust someone on that level is something that I've been working on.

Jessica Craddock: I did this exercise a couple of weeks ago where I listed out every single thing I do in my business.

Chanelle Jefferson: Oh, yeah?

Jessica Craddock: And I put them into categories because I like categories. You don't have to do that. But then I was thinking about that, the 80/20 rule, where 80 percent of the things that you do only produce that 20% of the growth and the results and I was like, okay, so if I'm going to take that rule, really literally, I'm going to list out every single thing I do. And I think it ended up being 56 things, which honestly feels like it wasn't that many because I already have 2 people on my team helping me do all these things.

So, I was like, I've got it down to 56. I'm doing great. But if I take 20 percent of that, yeah. What is that? I don't know, eight, seven or eight things. If I had to cross off everything, but seven or eight things on this list, what? How? How would I do that?

Chanelle Jefferson: Mm hmm

Jessica Craddock: And it was either really streamline everything and let go of the majority of the things I am doing or, and/ or pass things off to either a team or have start thinking about a third person.

[00:22:46] Hiring someone to do the tasks you don't have time for can give you needed space.

Jessica Craddock: So, this is not exactly solving your problem, but helps you see that yes, it is vulnerable. And yes, it is scary. And yes, you do want to find the person who's going to match your energy. And I can't be doing all of this if I'm going to be investing 50, 000 in myself to make these leaps and bounds, but I still have all of this on my plate.

Chanelle Jefferson: Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: So, you mentioned emails, you mentioned stretching, priming canvases. Those are some really basic things.

Chanelle Jefferson: Mm hmm.

Jessica Craddock: Email is a little bit more vulnerable there. I get that. I just put someone on my inbox not too long ago and it's still kind of scary, but we're working through it. And she's really good about checking in and saying, am I going to do this right? But maybe something like stretching canvas isn't so vulnerable if you knew that they knew how to do.

Chanelle Jefferson: hmm.

Jessica Craddock: or that they had perfectionist tendencies and they would always make sure it was just so. Essentially, I guess what I'm saying is I think it would be a really great exercise for you to do that, make that list and then say, what, what are my lightest things that I do? And. What kind of skill sets would people need in order to be able to take two or three things off of this list for me?

Chanelle Jefferson: Yeah, and I think one of the things that we're really quick to, or that I am really quick to say is, Oh, I don't have the time to train them or show them what it is I want. But when it comes down to it, and I'm actually, if I'm willing to sit with it, what it comes down to is this piece of perfectionism that is at the core of me, that I've been working through since a child.

And I think one of the things, I used to draw with a ruler, like things were very, very straight and neat and tidy and they had to be perfect. And that was something that I developed from my father and growing up was passed down through trauma. But, the way I now draw, blind contour without looking at the paper, is and always has been my way to give up control and the need for perfectionism.

There is absolutely no way anything can be perfect when you draw without looking at the paper. Sometimes there's an extra toe. And I have grown, it's always something that I've really loved, those qualities of, of surrender. But I haven't been able to pull them through my own work or my own body.

And then this drawing came to me. It found me through the most horrendous drawing class I've ever taken. And I hated it at the time. Then I slowly watched it trickle into my work. And now this is the way that I surrender to everything in my life.

And I think that's just, that's at the core of being hesitant to bring in a team and also the fear of letting other people down. Then it's, you know, I really have to show up and put it all in. I'm then required to pay these people. And there's this kind of extra fear of letting somebody down, even though I know like we're on track to make 400, 000 this year. And it's like, There's this still, there's always this little piece of this that's like, Hmm, am I going to fail? Am I going to be able to pay this person?

And these deeper fears come up, of course, from all of our past programming. But it's really, I think that those are really the things underneath can I build out this team? Hmm,

Jessica Craddock: One of my, I said this recently, I don't remember if it was on a podcast. I hope I'm not repeating myself, but one of my favorite things about fear is that the thing that you are afraid of, that you are avoiding, of letting people down. If you bring someone on and they don't have the same energy. They don't perform it as well as you do.

They don't have these perfectionism pieces where they care as much as you do. If you don't find that person and you continue scaling to 400, 000 this year. It's almost inevitable that you are going to let people down because you cannot do all of it. So, the thing you're afraid of, you're avoiding, but will become inevitable because you avoid it.

Chanelle Jefferson: Mm hmm.

Jessica Craddock: which is cool and terrible all at the same time.

Chanelle Jefferson: Yeah, it's really interesting, and I think we have to use fear as the green light to go towards the things that scare us. That's what's on the other side of fear is, is confidence compounded over time. It's, it's the green light. That I use in many parts of my life, and I think just stepping into that fear, there will probably be even more growth when I reach the other side of it, so just kind of leaning into it, but sooner rather than later.

Jessica Craddock: So, your version of letting go of perfectionism in your artwork is blind contour. What is your version of that, letting go of perfectionism, in life. Like, is there a process such as. Drawing blind contour that you can, or can you pull inspiration from that to be able to find the willingness to go forward on that fear?

Chanelle Jefferson: In the fear of building a team, or you just mean fear fears in general, like,

Jessica Craddock: Building a team. I mean, you could apply it to anything, but we're particularly talking about team right now.

Chanelle Jefferson: I think one of the, one of the things that I commonly use is for surrender in my life is when I bump up when something, I used to be someone who was very stuck in victim mentality, who always thought the world was happening to me. And it was, things weren't fair and I was in this very low vibrational energy where of course when we sit in that energy then even more things happen to us because we're on that frequency.

And one of the things that I now use is when something happens is I kind of use a, a pattern interrupt where sometimes for people it's physical. So, I'll do, like push-ups or you think of something random like, say, banana. So, something happens, it triggers us, it feels like, what the fuck is happening? And then we take a moment, we interrupt the pattern so that we can take a second to really objectively look at it.

And see how is the world happening for me instead of to me? What could the deeper meaning of this be? Or what else could this mean? And I think applying that to team, it's probably inevitable. It'll take some time to find the person just like, it takes some time to find the right therapist or the right dentist, but it's most likely, through moving through every single one of those people. Or, you know, maybe it could be the perfect person right off the bat, however that looks. But if there's a chance that it takes a while, I will most likely learn something from each one of those individuals and that they're most likely brought to me to teach me something about myself or to prepare for the person who is going to be the perfect fit.

[00:30:36] We should look for the lessons in life instead of viewing our experiences negatively.

Jessica Craddock: I really like looking at life that way. It's really hard to do it in the moment, but looking back, it's way easier to see like this led to this, led to this, and everything lined up to get me here. And you can always do that.

Chanelle Jefferson: Yeah, I think that's where the trust comes in and the pattern interrupts so that we can detach ourselves from the emotion that's tied to it and look at it more objectively than from an emotional stance.

Jessica Craddock: I feel like I need to switch gears real quick here because you are saying all these beautiful things about pattern interrupts and energy. And we have not touched on the fact that you also run retreats. And you had mentioned wanting to say something about that because your words where I want to show artists that you don't have to do that niching down that you can have these different parts and pieces that make up a complete business. And I also, when you said that thought how interesting, because I see it the opposite way. I see it as all those parts and pieces create. This amazing niche is only you, and no one else has that. So, we're saying the same thing, but different ways. But you have different parts to your business. Let's talk about that for a minute.

Chanelle Jefferson: Yeah, so it wasn't always like that. I first started with artwork and when you pour so vulnerably into your work, chances are people are going to do it back. And when I started sharing all of my experiences, my pain, people would look at my artwork and without even me sharing what the artwork was about, something helped them feel safe enough, whether it was my energy or the artwork or whatever it was in the room, helped them feel safe enough to share things that they may have never had the space to share. And sometimes people would tell me, you know, my son just died and this painting reminds me of him or I experienced this very traumatic thing in my childhood and they would give me all of this stuff.

And at the time I was not prepared to hold it. It was like, I think sometimes in life we're taught to just deflect, because we don't know how to properly and deeply connect with someone. So, when someone says, Oh, I really hate my job. We're like, yeah, well, a lot of people hate their jobs, or I hate my job too.

And just kind of normalize this, this thing. Yeah, that sucks. And I didn't know how to properly hold all this stuff for people. So, I made it my mission to learn and I became a counselor, an energy, mind and emotions practitioner. And went through this very lengthy certification process that led me down a road that I had no idea what was coming.

At the time I just did it so that I could learn how to ask better questions, but then it evolved into me learning how to support people one on one, me hosting retreats and experiences and bringing the healing from my artwork off the canvas and in person. And they just kind of developed this beautiful, some people would call it a brand. But it's this beautiful world for people to come into and kind of bounce around. And I was able to combine artwork with experiences. So, people would come to me and be led through a healing experience, but then I would draw them line contour at the same time.

And it just evolved into this great thing because I think often as artists we're taught we have to make artwork and put it on the wall or put it in the gallery. And there's oftentimes this piece of us that we want to bring more. There's more of us in there. We're multifaceted people. We're creative people.

And maybe you want to make pottery and paint and it's like, Oh, you have to have two separate Instagrams. You have to make two separate businesses. So, for me, it was learning about how do I bring all this together? And like you said, it's becoming your own niche, this very specific thing that nobody else has through being the most authentic version of yourself.

Jessica Craddock: Do you have a program? You need a program.

Chanelle Jefferson: I don't, I have retreats, maybe one.

Jessica Craddock: Retreats are great. Can I come? When is the next one?

Chanelle Jefferson: The next one is May 30th. I do them right now once a year. And then I host a few VIP retreats, which are very close to work one on one with people, like four to six people, and then larger ones, which are 10 to 17. But I'd love one day to have my own program, perhaps, once I bring on a team to

Jessica Craddock: I'll sign up.

um, I feel like we should wrap up, even though we just kind of bounced around and I'm not even sure what poor Julie is going to call this podcast title. I don't know. Good luck, Julie. But yeah, she'll figure it out because she is my team, and I'm going to trust her to do that. Also, Chanelle, I am reading a book called Who Not How, and I think you should read it too.

Chanelle Jefferson: Okay, beautiful.

[00:35:59] Having a team of people to support you can help your business grow.

Jessica Craddock: I'm just at the very beginning, but it's very interesting. And one thing that really stood out to me that I will share with you and then we can move on. The introduction to the book was about how Michael Jordan, who is perhaps the greatest basketball player of all time could not perform on his own. He had to bring in teams and multiple people to support him in different areas to be known as that person. He might've been that good anyway, but nobody would have known about it because he didn't have the support he needed to get out.

Chanelle Jefferson: Yeah, I think that that's incredibly important and, and so true. What it brings up for me is that I, we can get really caught up in what we've experienced in the past and we can get stuck there. And there was a point where I used to be really angry about the trauma I experienced, and I thought it wasn't fair. And over the past year, I've become really thankful and for people who are experiencing trauma right now or something really difficult, that can be really hard for them to hear.

But it is possible to get to that point where we can be grateful for the things that have happened to us. And I don't think that without all those experiences that I would be able to show up today. And do the work that I'm doing. I wouldn't be able to serve the people. And I think what we moved through, and what he probably moved through, in calling in all those people, those are people who have supported me, even though that's not the right word, in being here today.

And we can evolve our past experiences into this really beautiful thing like he has. And, you know, there's this, there's a team out there of people, no matter what it looks like a partner, a friend, a community collaboration that will help you move forward.

Jessica Craddock: And also he was nearly perfect and still couldn't do it.

Chanelle Jefferson: That’s a good one to remember, especially as someone who is contemplating family in the near future and bringing children into this world. And especially as women, we're just taught that we must show up and do it all and to know that there are people in this world who are incredible and still need support is really important.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah, that was really an arrow to the heart for me. That's not proper English, but I was like, ah,

Chanelle Jefferson: Haha.

Jessica Craddock: All right. So, Chanelle, where do people find you find your work? Where do you want them to go?

Chanelle Jefferson: Yeah, I think Instagram is probably the most useful space for me. Um, if you visit my website and you sign up for my email list, you'll receive a free snail mail print wherever you are in the world. Yeah. They're the only prints I make now. I don't make any other prints in my artwork. So, you'll have a very special print,

Jessica Craddock: Also, a team could do that.

Chanelle Jefferson: But it's something that I haven't wanted to do. I haven't wanted to expand into the print world for a few reasons, but that might be another conversation.

Jessica Craddock: I don't think that's a problem. I mean, maybe it changes at some point.

Chanelle Jefferson: Maybe it does. Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: But you don't have to make prints.

Chanelle Jefferson: Yeah. I think, a lot of the times my artwork is meant for a specific person, and I really want to keep the integrity of my work as well. And prints work great for, for some people, but at this point in my, my journey, I'm.

I don't offer them, and they felt more heavy than light and that's how I make a lot of my decisions in life. But if you sign up, If you sign up for my email list, you'll get one of the only prints. And I think my website has a lot of information that you'll be able to find.

Jessica Craddock: I'm going to write that down on one of my sticky notes. Oh, also you said the only thing worse than change is not changing. That's my other sticky note on my desk right now. All right. Well, this is lovely. Thank you so much for taking the time on a Friday, nonetheless.

Chanelle Jefferson: Yeah, I'm really grateful for the opportunity and just to have a chat with you and to show some artists that they can have what is available to them and their dreams. So, keep going. And yeah, thank you very much for today.

Jessica Craddock: Beautiful. Also, I'm going to go get one print.

Chanelle Jefferson: Okay, sounds good.

Jessica Craddock: Right. Talk to you soon,

Chanelle Jefferson: See you.

Jessica Craddock: Bye.