Season 2, Episode 5: “How can I make decisions about my art business when I feel stuck?” – Michelle Beaudrot

Jessica Craddock: I am here today with Michelle Beardrot of February Rose is her brand name, and in the past when she started her brand, she created it in order to move towards surface pattern, surface design. But recently she's kind of fallen into teaching watercolor. So I'm not sure exactly where we're gonna go today, but we're about to find.

Welcome, Michelle. How are you? Thank you.

How are you?

Michelle Beaudrot: I'm great. I'm great.

Jessica Craddock: I am really excited to talk to you today because I feel like one of the things you said in your application, I think really resonates with a lot of people. You feel like you're paralyzed sometimes, and just want someone to hear where you're at so you don't feel so lost.

And maybe by being here, you can help someone else feel that way as well. And I think that a lot of people are at this fork in the road almost where I could go this way or I could go this way, and maybe somewhere they merged down the road. But right now I don't exactly know what my path looks like.

Does that feel accurate?. Is that a good description?

Michelle Beaudrot: Exactly, that's exactly how I feel.

Jessica Craddock: Great, so anyone else who is feeling that way, just know you are not alone because it's a very common thing.

You've got these two roads. Mm-hmm. And yes, there's, there's overlap in the roads. What's happening in your mind, in your brain, that's keeping you at that fork? Or do you feel like you have made progress down one and you're ready to go? Kind of tell me a little bit about it.

Michelle Beaudrot: Yeah, so, I've been an artist for all my life.

You know, I went into interior design to just focus on that instead of doing fine art. Always wanted to be a fine artist. So when I moved here recently from New York, moved to Georgia, I decided to go with that path. It's been a year, and sometimes it feels like I'm making zero progress.

I want to be known for my fine art, but at the same time, like I wanna be licensing my art, maybe not doing fine art and selling originals, maybe just making surface patterns and going down that route. And then as I was discovering myself and posting on Instagram and making reels and doing things, I sort of stumbled into making tutorials.

And that kind of just exploded, literally almost overnight. I just got one reel, went like all these people followed me from a reel and I got so many beautiful messages. Like me and my daughter, we are watching your tutorials and looking forward to them. So I've always thought about teaching, but I never really thought it was gonna be what happened.

So that's where I'm at now. Sort of like, I want to do all these different things, and I have all these ideas in my head. And then it just gets overwhelming and I kind of just, I kind of just like shut down because I don't know which is the right way to go or how to focus my energy on one thing or two things instead of like 10 things.

Jessica Craddock: Right.

Michelle Beaudrot: That is where I'm at, and it's just been, It's not a bad thing, it's just been overwhelming.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah. So when you filled out your application to be on the podcast, originally, you had said something about maybe I want to teach. And so that's, it sounds like, has always been in the back of your mind a little bit. And you're kind of falling into it at this point, which could be good and it could be bad.

Michelle Beaudrot: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I guess when I was starting out in my art, like when I was going to college, that was in 2006. That was really the only path that I saw for myself because back then we didn't have all the social media outlets that you can be an artist now. Back then it was like, you can't be an artist.

Like what are you going to do? Like that was the general, that was how people acted around me. Like my parents were very supportive, but a lot of people are like, oh, you're gonna be an artist? Like, good luck. And it was very, that was like, okay, so I could be an art teacher, or maybe I could do art therapy or I'm gonna do graphic design, which is what I majored in.

I just don't like it. So I stopped going to school for it and I quit. I quit art, and I just did the jobs that were safe. I went back for interior design, kitchen and bath design, and it was like, all right, at least I have a little creative outlet going on here. It did for like six years. I was like, okay.

Then I just burnt out from that because it's just not what I want to do. So, yeah, I guess I. I don't know if I wanted to teach, but I always thought like that was really a path that artists get to do. You know, and there's a lot of different ways of teaching. You could physically teach art, or you can maybe teach how you help artists.

The support of my tutorials and the fact that I love doing them, I'm kind of going with it. But again, like, I always just wanted to be a fine artist.

So yeah.

Jessica Craddock: I feel like what might be the most helpful for you today is if we actually just take a step back.

Michelle Beaudrot: Mm-hmm.

Jessica Craddock: Take a moment to look at all of this and breathe.

Breathing is good. I'm not saying you're not breathing, but I feel like that's, that's a part of the stepping back process for me. And decide where we want to go before we go down this other pathway. Because you mentioned I fell into graphic design because I thought that's how artists could make money.

I fell into surface pattern because I have those computer skills, and so I thought I should probably go that way. And then you also said like, artists can be teachers, and that's one way they can make money, so I should go that way.

And I, I just want to make sure you're following the right direction. Does that sound okay for you?

Michelle Beaudrot: Yeah. That's, that's how it is in my brain.

Jessica Craddock: And there's nothing wrong with that because there's this other piece. There's this other piece that is, well, I need to make money mm-hmm. And what is the surest way to be able to do that, at least as I'm starting, so that I don't have to go back to the career that I left behind, because it's not my passion.

Mm. So on a scale of one to 10, I hope this is not too personal to ask about. If it is, just tell me. But on a scale of one to 10, 10 being I need money right now. And I just need to get it, so I don't have to go back to that career. And one being, yes, of course I want to make money, but there's actually enough for my basic needs. And I am safe and secure.

Where do you fall on that scale?

Michelle Beaudrot: You're gonna laugh, but I'm, I'm a, I'm out of five, I think. I'm just always like right in the middle there. Like,

Jessica Craddock: It's okay. There's nothing wrong with that.

Michelle Beaudrot: Yeah. It's like I definitely need to be doing something soon. I took a year to do this, and I know I can't put a, like a time limit on something. But yeah, I gotta start making a little income. I have a partner, so I'm not too scared right now.

Jessica Craddock: Have you actually been making any, cause a lot of people will say, I need to make money, I'm not making any money. And then I talk to 'em and they're like, oh yeah, I made $2,000 last month. So, Are you actually not making any money?

Michelle Beaudrot: No, I'm not making anywhere near that. I'm making, you know, I launched my egg collection and I sold a few eggs.

I sell a few prints. I'm not doing anything lucrative right now.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. So there is a tiny trickle coming in.

Michelle Beaudrot: Tiny, tiny. Yeah.

Jessica Craddock: So it's not zero. But it's not anywhere close to what you need it to be or want it to be.

Michelle Beaudrot: Yeah. If I didn't have savings right now, I wouldn't be able to do this.

I would be going to work.

Jessica Craddock: Yes. Okay, great. So there's kind of the question, how long is that savings going to keep you at a five before it becomes a 10?

Michelle Beaudrot: 10 being like, get to work?

Jessica Craddock: Yeah. 10 being I gotta go to work.

Michelle Beaudrot: Probably, maybe another six months to a year, maybe.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. All right. So let's pretend it's six months because you never know. So we're gonna start with, we've got six months to start making something real happen. What does it really look like for you? So we're starting with the money, and then we're going to move into the other side of things. How much do you need to bring in in order to make this viable for you?

Michelle Beaudrot: Need?

 I need at least. I'm gonna have to say like 2000 a month at least. Okay. That's low for what I'm used to, but

Jessica Craddock: Sure.

Michelle Beaudrot: I have a partner, so I'm not totally

Jessica Craddock: You're not all on your own. Yeah. So the reason why I ask is because sometimes people will say, I need $10,000 a month, cuz that's what I'm used to when you're currently making

close to zero. And so trying to go from zero to 10,000 is just, yeah, it's gonna feel insurmountable. So I wanna start with like what's the lowest denominator? And that's our first goal.

Michelle Beaudrot: Yeah .

Jessica Craddock: Does that make sense?

Okay. So that being established, 2000 is our base goal. If you could, like, let's take away all the shoulds. I should teach. I should do graphic design.

I should be an interior designer. I should. I should. I should. I should. What's the ultimate dream?

Michelle Beaudrot: Ultimate dream. I just, I really wanna be creating collections, launching them. I don't need to be selling out, but I need to be selling. More than, more than half I would be happy with depending on whatever it is.

Jessica Craddock: Sure. Okay.

Michelle Beaudrot: That I would be happy with that, just like in my heart.

But selling prints, you know, for people that can't afford or don't want the originals, I would like to definitely be licensing my art, whether it's on planners or on fabric, but I have a lot, you know, I still have to get to that point. I would love to do watercolor workshops. I would love to do it in-person.

I'm going to be doing YouTube. I've already started now I can't stop, and at least like two to three videos a month. And hopefully that would be my goal is to have, to be able to be creating and then, doing the rest. I just, I want to be creating.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah. And you said watercolor. You said prints. You said collections.

Jessica Craddock: Let's start with collections.

Michelle Beaudrot: Mm-hmm.

Jessica Craddock: How many collections would be realistic for you to release per year?

Michelle Beaudrot: I feel for me, considering I don't have a full-time job and I don't have children, I think that I could, I could at least do probably six. I'm thinking, I don't want to overkill. But I'm thinking like, it depends on what I'm doing. Because when I watercolor, it doesn't take me very long to create one watercolor.

Like it's just, it flows. It's an intuitive flow process for me. So I could create a large collection pretty quickly, and it depends on what the project is. Like when I do my, my eggs and my ornaments, they take forever. So if I'm considering those, maybe, maybe five, but I have 12 months of the year. So, and I don't know, I haven't done this yet.

Jessica Craddock: Well, just from someone who's been around for a while, I'm gonna say six. I'm not saying you couldn't do it. Mm. But it's gonna be rough.

Michelle Beaudrot: Yeah. Okay. That's good to hear. Because I don't know what's normal and what's not normal. And you see what's on Instagram or like social media and you're like, what are they, how is she doing this? And how is, you know, she's sitting there all day and just pumping out all this art. And I'm, I can't,

Jessica Craddock: Yeah.

I think that's a recipe for a disaster at some point. You can do it for a while, but you're gonna burn out. Let's say four and a half. There we go. We'll say in theory you're gonna do four and a half collections because you said five, and I'm taking it down just a half a notch.

So if you were to do that at $2,000 a month, that's $24,000. So I like to figure things out like you only have one income stream. It just gives you a better picture. That doesn't mean it has to end up looking that way, but that would mean you would need, $24,000 divided by 4.5 equals $5,333 per collection, is what you would need to net.

Okay, so let's just pretend for a minute that you were going to do a collection, and forget I just said that number. How many pieces do you think you would have? How much do you think they would go for? Like just kinda gimme some ballpark.

Michelle Beaudrot: Again, I haven't really done them, but I'm thinking…

Jessica Craddock: This is all theory at this point.

Michelle Beaudrot: So like, cuz I could be wrong and I could be more or less, but I'm thinking like eight to 12 at least per collection.

If it's smaller, like I'm gonna do a mini, you know, a mini landscape. I could probably do a lot more, but obviously I can't charge as much.

Jessica Craddock: Right.

Michelle Beaudrot: And per piece, I also have that whole thing going on in my head where I'm not able to price things as much as I want because I have, you know, the imposter syndrome going on. So, I'm not sure.

I'm not sure.

Jessica Craddock: So what number, if I said, let's say you made an eight by ten.

Michelle Beaudrot: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: If I said, Michelle, I love that. I want to buy it. What number could you say back to me without word vomiting?

Michelle Beaudrot: Maybe like $225. I, but that in my heart, I would feel like $160. But I'd want like $300.

Jessica Craddock: So, okay, so $160 feels comfortable, $225 feels like your push. Three would be like, I'm, I'm working up toward that. So let's just say you have 12 pieces, and you sell all of them for $225 a piece. That's about half of $5,330.

So when you look at just plain old math, assuming you sell a hundred percent of everything for the rest of the year, we would get to about 12,000 a year.

Michelle Beaudrot: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. So that's not to say that we can't continue increasing our prices and continue making bigger sizes or like pumping out more work.

Like there's ways to solve that problem, but that's a pretty big gap. So let's look at some of the other things real quick. And right now we're just looking at money and I am looking at it through the lens of, you said, I would be happy doing this, this, or this, or this and this and this. Teaching watercolors.

What does that look like in your head? So you said YouTube. I'm gonna start doing YouTube videos. Mm-hmm. Is this exclusively an online teaching?

Michelle Beaudrot: Well, I would like to do workshops. Ideally, I would love to have my own place to do them, but I would have to pay to use another space because I don't have a house yet.

Jessica Craddock: Yeah.

Michelle Beaudrot: So where I would love to offer, even like going to people's houses and doing maybe small get togethers there. So that would cut my cost to, you know, rent a place. But right now, I have my art prints in a local store, so they like a local maker shop. So they are having me do a watercolor class on the 1st of April.

 They're gonna take a percentage and I'm gonna get whatever. That's right now.

Jessica Craddock: What do you think though? Let's say we did, we figured out how to do three. Mm. We could probably even up it, it doesn't have to be on a weekend. Maybe six watercolor workshops a month. What do you think one of those would net for you in your experience with this other place?

Michelle Beaudrot: I haven't done it yet. So

Jessica Craddock: You don't know how much?

Michelle Beaudrot: I'm not even sure how many people are going yet.

Jessica Craddock: Do you know what they're charging?

Michelle Beaudrot: $65 a head. Max being 10 to 12 people. I don't want to have more people because I'm not going to be able to do that.

I know that for now.

Jessica Craddock: So if it's 10 people, let's say 10 people sign up and it's 65 a head. What, what's your percentage? I get 65%. Oh, you get 65% and they're charging $65. I get 65%. They get 35%.

Okay. So for one of those workshops, you would net $422.50.

 So if you did five, let's say, that would be a little over your monthly goal. Okay. So that sounds a little bit better. And that's not to say we can't mix and match. Still we're just, we're looking individually. Okay. Then last but not least, honestly, my least favorite.

Have you made a print store or looked into that at all yet?

Michelle Beaudrot: I have my prints. I I ordered them, you know, I had them made. I haven't purchased a printer yet.

Jessica Craddock: Okay.

Michelle Beaudrot: Because I'm not gonna invest until it's smart to do that. But I have a very good markup for my prints.

I have a website. I'm going to be creating an Etsy because as part of Harvest, my mentor, she makes very good money on Etsy. I know at first, it might be slow. But she makes very good money and she does what I do. Not to say that I'll do exact, but it's an incentive to have that income stream as well.

I do like prints on Etsy a little bit better because you're not doing as much work to market them. You're using keywords and such. If you do a good job with keywords, it's almost like someone marketing it for you. So just leave that conversation there.

What would you need to sell? How many prints would you need to sell to make a hundred dollars?

Jessica Craddock: Five. Around five.

Is that including the printing cost?

Yeah, the printing cost is not too much. Yeah. Okay. Because I sell my prints eight by tens or 22 each, and the printing costs are, I would have to do the math, but probably.

Okay? 2000 divided by a hundred is 20, times five is a hundred. So you would need to sell about a hundred prints a month to make $2,000.

Michelle Beaudrot: Yikes.

Which I know like some people do.

Jessica Craddock: So the thing is, I would say as, as we're starting out making money, I would pick one path that is like your tree trunk.

And then as we get that one working, we can add more branches because with each one comes their own problems that you have to figure out. Like prints, if I was selling a hundred, how do I get that many out the door? How do I make sure I have a steady supply? How do I make blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But if print is your tree trunk, then you figure all that stuff out. You get it solidified. You're able to bring in money that way. And then you are really able to start focusing on adding. That's not saying you can't start more than one, but if you're focusing on more than one, it's going to be real hard.

So of those three options that we just laid out and what that would look like, realistically, the watercolor classes is the easiest route. But when I say that, does that make you cringe or does that make you happy?

Michelle Beaudrot: It doesn't make me cringe, but I don't think I can handle six classes a month.

I might be able to, but me being like in social situations, I get like, it kind of drains my energy.

Jessica Craddock: Mm-hmm.

Michelle Beaudrot: So, I mean, I don't know though, because I haven't done it, so I can't really speak to it. I might love it. It might bring me joy. I'll know April 1st, but I am gonna be nervous. I just, I don't wanna overdo it at first, but if it's something that I love, once a week doesn't seem too crazy, considering what I used to do, like on a daily basis.

Jessica Craddock: Right.

Michelle Beaudrot: You know.

Jessica Craddock: For sure.

So this is the hard part. The hard part is that you are at this point where there's all these different ways you can go, and for each one of these you have said, well, I don't know. I haven't done it yet.

And so if I were not to give you the answer and you were to come up with your own answer to this problem, what would you say?

Michelle Beaudrot: I think I should, I should definitely lean into the teaching for sure. That would bring me money and I would be able to promote myself a lot more if I was doing that. And just work as hard as I can and sort of work on collections when I can. And it's just the whole like marketing thing too. It's a whole full-time job there, so.

Jessica Craddock: There's not actually a correct answer. You cannot choose wrong.

Michelle Beaudrot: Okay.

Because that's how I feel in my head. I try to feel my gut out, but it's,

Jessica Craddock: It's hard to know what the gut is saying if you haven't tried it.

Michelle Beaudrot: And it's a whole confidence thing,

so.

Jessica Craddock: Oh yeah. You don't get the confidence until you do the test.

Michelle Beaudrot: Yes. But I have been, it sounds woowoo, but I have been sort of asking the universe to kind of gimme the signs that I need. And I know that sound, some people might say like, oh gosh, like, stop.

Jessica Craddock: I love it.

Michelle Beaudrot: I just have been feeling like things are coming to me that, if I had a more negative outlook on it, like I used to, it wouldn't be happening. But since I've been more receptive to sort of letting the universe kind of give me the signs and following them and listening a little bit better to what's going on around me, being out in nature a lot more helps me like so much.

I don't know. It sounds, I don't know how everybody else thinks, but

Jessica Craddock: It doesn't matter, Michelle. It matters how you think, if it works for you.

Michelle Beaudrot: It's just been, things have been coming to me that I just never expected to happen, and I'm just going with it. But I need to make money, so,

Jessica Craddock: So if you wanted me to give you my answer,

Michelle Beaudrot: Yes.

Jessica Craddock: If you want me to give you my answer and it, that doesn't mean it's the right answer, it's just my answer.

Michelle Beaudrot: I would love to hear your perspective and your input.

Jessica Craddock: Based on what we just figured out, we're using facts here. And also as much of your gut and universe as we can, as much as we have, I say watercolor to start.. Watercolor becomes the tree trunk because you have put it out there and it came back pretty easily, and that doesn't always happen.

I can't remember exactly the name of it, but in The Alchemist, there's this guy, Melchizadek, is that right? Anyway, he says something like, when you're going out on your path, if it comes easy just for that starting moment, that's a good sign. It's like you're, yes, ready, go! Like a little mini confidence boost to get you going.

Michelle Beaudrot: My background isn't even watercolor at all. I was a hyper realism artist. This just like, it just came to me and I just, it just flows to me. I don't know how to explain it, but it just is, it's just working. So

Jessica Craddock: Here's the other thing. No matter which path you choose, you're gonna say, oh, here's all the reasons why I shouldn't, I can't, it might not work, but that's true for any of them.

But the alternative is you don't go down the path so that it never can prove that it won't work, and then it definitely doesn't work because you didn't go down the path. Mm-hmm. So the other reason why I said that is because it's most likely that you're going to be able to establish a baseline income more quickly so that you can start creating those tree branches. Five workshops a month at $400, it meets your goal, and that feels pretty doable if you are willing to go out and find the places to do the classes, whether or not it's splitting commissions or doing it at a friend's house. If you choose a path, it becomes easier because then you can say, okay, now how are all the ways that I could do that path?

And you're able to focus your creative brain power on that. You also mentioned YouTube, so that's another way that that could become an income stream. But if we're just looking at classes, that can make you meet your goal so you can grow from there. So that would be my way that I would choose.

If you had said I don't want to do that, I would not have picked that way. Okay. You said, I think I'm gonna like it, and you gave me a couple reasons why it might not work. But that's just fear talking, and in my experience, if the universe is giving you a little push in a certain direction, it's because you're going to love it.

Even if there's all these reasons why you think you might not, and if you don't love it, great. Go a different way.

Yeah, I've got to, I gotta try it. But yeah, the reasons why I don't think I'll love it are all self reasons, like I can't do it or I'm not good enough. It's not that I don't want to do it, it's got to do with confidence. So once I start doing it, I tend to, you know, feel better.

So we'll see.

Okay, I want to ask you what would be one or two or three little wins in that direction that would give you a confidence boost?

Michelle Beaudrot: I think that, say this class goes well, I think a boost would be if people asked for more classes. That would make me feel a lot better. Like that they wanted to come instead of me, like, pushing it out there, and like, people be like, all right, I'm bored. I'll do it.

I want them to want to be there. I think as far as maybe going on YouTube, like people requesting more videos, which they already do on Instagram. Like last night I got a woman messaged me, and she said, I can't believe you're in, because she didn't know I was in the same town as her.

And she says, I've been following you. Me and my daughter sit down every weekend and we do your watercolor tutorials together. And that it made me tear up because she's like, my daughter's so excited you're here. And I said, oh, maybe we can like, you know, meet and do a little class together one day.

And it just, she sent me a picture of her daughter doing my roses and it just, that was a huge confidence boost. And I didn't know people, up until recently, I didn't know people were like watching them and actually doing them and enjoying 'em. So that's two at least. And I don't know. I don't need it to sell out.

I just need to know it's helping people because that's ultimately, yeah, why I'm doing them. Because I'm sort of taking steps and dumbing them down a little. Not to say that people are dumb, but making them simpler so that everyone can enjoy it. Because for me it's such a good process.

It's just so relaxing and just, I don't know.

Jessica Craddock: I want you to get some post-it notes. Because it's one of my favorite ways to mentally record when.

Michelle Beaudrot: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: And take one and write down, get a request for more watercolor tutorials or something like that. And put the date on it, and stick it on your wall where you can see it.

And as soon as someone requests one, make a new goal, and stick it on top of that and put the date on it. And then look at it and say, how long did that take to get that win?

Michelle Beaudrot: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: And you'll just start stacking 'em up until you're like, people love my tutorials. I'm amazing. I'm going to do this all day. And then for the other one you said was for people to request more.

This is actually the opposite advice that I normally give, I think. Normally I'd be like, what's the simplest way to do it and do it well and have fun with it? But in this case, I want you to think

As you're preparing the class, how can I make this as fun or helpful or useful, or whatever for other people as possible. So that they will want another class. Like, we're gonna try to without give ourselves the outcome we want.

Michelle Beaudrot: Okay.

That makes sense. Yeah. I didn't think

Jessica Craddock: It's easy.

Michelle Beaudrot: It's so easy.

I don't know why I didn't think of that.

Jessica Craddock: That's why the easy things are hard to think of. The hard things are easy to think of.

Michelle Beaudrot: So true. Okay. All right.

Jessica Craddock: You got it? Okay. What's your homework?

Michelle Beaudrot: My homework is to go buy post-its and to really plan out this class a little bit differently than I thought I was going to. Mm-hmm.

Think about it a little deeper than just like, do this, do this.

Jessica Craddock: Okay. I also want you to give yourself two more homeworks. One, pick something that people have been requesting or have requested. And make your next YouTube about that. So we're gonna use a feedback loop. And if it's something they're like, I want a dog.

And you're like, I don't do dogs, I do flowers, then don't do that. But maybe even ask for what they would like to see next. And since they're not requesting on YouTube yet, use that place where you already have an audience and use it to build your other one.

Michelle Beaudrot: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: And then the last homework. I want you to start looking for opportunities to have your next class.

Michelle Beaudrot: Okay.

Jessica Craddock: That is you just keeping your eyes and your brain open. Is it going to be at a friend's house? Let's not say that the one you're hosting, if they schedule another one, let's not count that we're looking for an opportunity somewhere else.

We're trying to layer here. So if we could get five places that want to do a monthly watercolor class at $65 and take a 35% cut, then you're set. And you don't have to worry about that anymore, and you can do something else. Whether it's, I wanna do more watercolor tutorials on YouTube and work on that income stream, or I really want to make sure my prints are SEOed on Etsy or whichever direction you go after that. But we only need to know where we're going right this second.

Does that feel good?

Michelle Beaudrot: It does.

It feels less chaotic when it's said to me. Okay.

Jessica Craddock: Yes.

Michelle Beaudrot: Oh boy.

Jessica Craddock: That's what I'm here for. Okay, Michelle, it was lovely chatting with you. Why don't you tell people where you would like them to look for you if they want to find you .

Michelle Beaudrot: On Instagram I am February Rose Designs, and my website is February Rose.com and my YouTube will now be February Rose also.

Jessica Craddock: Awesome. Perfect.

And if you could pick from those three, where would you want them to go?

Michelle Beaudrot: Instagram is where I do a lot of chatting. Like I love when people DM me, and I can talk and meet people. But I would love everyone to join me on YouTube because I really want to focus on having that.

But Instagram is really where I'm mostly at. I post a lot of stories, a lot about myself.

Jessica Craddock: Well, I think just about everyone else at this point who might be listening to this is probably also preferring Instagram. So it's all good. Okay. Well Michelle, thank you and stay in touch.